Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:46 AM - Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron (bcone1381)
2. 09:03 AM - Re: Some thoughts on 'standby' batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:22 AM - Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron (bcone1381)
5. 09:28 AM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (D Fritz)
6. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron |
> Why settle for that . . . and the expenses associated
> with it? When it might be easy to keep the whole
> panel lit up?
Simplicity was why I would settle for it. You say "Easy to keep it all lit up."
A battery seemed simple and easy. I just read your "Thoughts on Standby Batteries."
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16775265
>
> Do you have room for a second alternator? The
> brownout bus is optional dependent on equipment
> installed. So is the battery bus. Remember, these
> are architecture drawings with features that
> address specific needs . . . if the need doesn't
> exist, the feature is deleted.
>
> The second alternator could be as small/light as
> an SD8 . . . have you conducted a load analysis?
> Do you KNOW what loads are supported under your
> anticipated flight conditions?
I am familiar with the SD8. It is the standby alternator of choice if thats the
way I need to go. I have room for it.
Load Analysis.
Normal Continuous load is 6.57A.
Normal Intermittent load is 2.5A for a single standby fuel pump.
Essential "Battery only" load requirements is 2.74A
The next quote regards the Alternate Engine Bus Switch
> powered from what source? How long is the feeder from
> that source to the switch?
>
The Engine Bus Alternate Power switch I proposed is powered from the battery side
of the master solenoid, and would carry a max normal load of 1.8A. It would
be 24 inches from the solenoid, and 24 from the Engine Bus.
[quote]
> The battery supports ALL loads in the event of
> alternator failure.
I agree. I was wrong.
> Do you have any electro-whizzies that
> address engine ops over and above
> the ignition system(s)? How is this
> airplane to be used? Night ops? Extended
> cross-country over unfriendly terrain?
> IFR?
Engine Electro-Whizzes.....The engine is a Lycoming IO-360 fuel injected using
mechanical Bendix RSA fuel injection and Mechanical Fuel Pump. The FI requires
no electrical power for normal operation. It has a single backup electric fuel
pump that is normally off. An Engine Monitoring System supplies all my engine
instrumentation. There are no other engine related electro-whizzes.
The mission is DAY VFR. The mission also includes Cross Country over unfriendly
terrain.
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495543#495543
Message 2
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| Subject: | Some thoughts on 'standby' batteries |
At 04:55 PM 4/1/2020, you wrote:
><Peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
<snip>
>Before very long there were batteries for everything, with a huge
>maintenance overhead (and their own failure scenarios). What was really
>required was an electrical power policy at the ship level flowed down to
>each sub-system, rather than the sub-systems driving what the ship was
>doing. Eventually the high paid help realised what was happening and set in
>place a painful (expensive, $$ and time) re-design that ended up having
>quite far reaching impacts.
Yup . . . a story repeated countless times
when legacy systems are burdened with new
requirements for reliability. I try to avoid
that condition for our readers by striving
for architectures that are unlikely to come
up short in the future.
<snip>
>As ever the operational goals of the aircraft should dictate the systems
>design and equipment selection.
Absolutely . . .
Which is why I encourage attention (1) making
every bus 'reliable' and/or (2) not driving
an 'essential' accessory from a minimally
reliable source.
The OBAM aviation supplier cannot
know the technical acumen of every customer
which no doubt drives their decisions/suggestions for
adding batteries. Klaus advocated for
an auxiliary battery to support his LightSpeed
ignition products. The N811HB accident
carried LightSpeed ignition installed contrary
to both Klaus's -AND- AeroElectric recommendations.
He was a defendant in the original filing
of lawsuits but ultimately joined my client
as plaintiff as the technical details of
the case unfolded.
I've often recommended that builders 'follow
the manufacturer's instructions' when the
conversation ponders departure from the
printed instructions. So I'll have to
be mindful of that 'rule' when encouraging
our readers to do their homework such that
departures from instruction are supported
by good science and tribal knowledge.
Thank you for your enduring participation
on the List!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual |
Electron
At 06:09 PM 4/1/2020, you wrote:
>
>Bob, In figure Z-01, Should the brownout bus fuse be increased in
>size from 10 amps to 30 amps?
>Since that fuse is in series with other fuses, we wouldn't want a
>short circuit to blow two fuses.
Good observation . . . fuses, wire sizes and bus
loads are evolving . . .
Speaking of evolution, I'm still wrestling with the
notion of driving the crowbar ov breaker bus extension
through a ATC fuse on the fuseblock. I cannot guarantee
that every future builder would use a breaker having
I(squared)t characteristics small enough to avoid
popping that fuse.
The fusible link is still the stone simple, most
convenient way to bring power from the fuseblock
terminal to the circuit breaker. I'm researching
sources for on-purpose fusible link wire in bulk.
Much more convenient . . . than the legacy kits
we introduced 20+ years ago.
Keep up the discerning observations my friend!
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual Electron |
> Why put a switch in series with the E-Bus diode?
> I suggest that switch be eliminated. If it is not installed, it can not fail.
Merely Personal preference.....I like an avionics switch. The avionics will be
on the essential bus.
In Bob's book he says that an avionics switch is a single point failure for every
item on the avionics bus. This design fixes that senecio. The Switch and
the Diode are used between the main and essential buses to avoid the main bus
from ever drawing power through the essential bus.
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495555#495555
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Bob,
It=99s been a while since you posted your Z99P1 and I=99ve been
having problems posting to the list.
I like your proposed architecture. It appears to be a nice evolutionary st
ep from previous architectures and maintains much of the Z12/8 simplicity.
Allowing the backup alternator to bypass the main contactor as you
=99ve shown appears to me to provide a fully redundant path to powering the
Poly E-bus. I=99m running one electronic ignition and one mag on my
IO-360 with conventional injection. This Z99P1 looks good for my use.
Dan
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Z11 "Generic Electrical system" with Dual |
Electron
At 11:20 AM 4/2/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> > Why put a switch in series with the E-Bus diode?
> > I suggest that switch be eliminated. If it is not installed, it
> can not fail.
>
>
>Merely Personal preference.....I like an avionics switch. The
>avionics will be on the essential bus.
>
>In Bob's book he says that an avionics switch is a single point
>failure for every item on the avionics bus. This design fixes that
>senecio. The Switch and the Diode are used between the main and
>essential buses to avoid the main bus from ever drawing power
>through the essential bus.
. . . except the avionics master has offered
no value in the operation or cost of ownership
in aircraft for about 40 years . . . maybe more.
Bob . . .
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