---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/06/20: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) 3. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Ken Ryan) 4. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Ken Ryan) 7. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) 8. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Charlie England) 10. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 03:49 PM - Revmaster R2300 Ignition (dj_theis) 12. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) 13. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) 14. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (John B) 15. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Jeff Luckey) 16. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (DeWitt Whittington) 17. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) 18. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Charlie England) 19. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Jeff Luckey) 20. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (A R Goldman) 21. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Sebastien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote: Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly what I would be looking for on my next aircraft. 1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost, weight, and maintenance point of view. Probably true for 95+ percent of all OBAM aircraft. 2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8 there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining deems it necessary. Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, a significant fraction of SD8 output. That amount of current would be better used to keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies lit up . . . but if your load analysis says that contactor loads can be handily support as part of your plan-b loads, then no problem! 3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup batteries that will power essential systems only for flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut down it's usually fine but every once in a while the engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets, clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself would be something I would use just about every flight. Brown out/endurance/clearance are one and the same bus. Why nav lights? 4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming the norm rather than the exception for new amateur built aircraft. Yup, the seeds were already in the ground at my first trip to OSH in '86. There were a couple electronic ignitions being offered that year not the least of what would become LightSpeed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:25 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Several times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 09:14 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote: > Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly > what I would be looking for on my next aircraft. > > 1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost, > weight, and maintenance point of view. > > Probably true for 95+ percent of all > OBAM aircraft. > > 2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure > will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8 > there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that > aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining > deems it necessary. > > Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden > the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. > The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, > a significant fraction of SD8 output. That > amount of current would be better used to > keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies > lit up . . . but if your load analysis says > that contactor loads can be handily support > as part of your plan-b loads, then no > problem! > > 3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup > batteries that will power essential systems only for > flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout > bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your > flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut > down it's usually fine but every once in a while the > engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets, > clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be > useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the > nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus > with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself > would be something I would use just about every flight. > > Brown out/endurance/clearance are one > and the same bus. Why nav lights? > > 4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming > the norm rather than the exception for new amateur > built aircraft. > > Yup, the seeds were already in the ground > at my first trip to OSH in '86. There > were a couple electronic ignitions being > offered that year not the least of what > would become LightSpeed. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:59 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, a significant fraction of SD8 output. That amount of current would be better used to keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies lit up . . . but if your load analysis says that contactor loads can be handily support as part of your plan-b loads, then no problem! Are solid state contactor loads significantly less than the traditional contactors? On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote: > Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly > what I would be looking for on my next aircraft. > > 1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost, > weight, and maintenance point of view. > > Probably true for 95+ percent of all > OBAM aircraft. > > 2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure > will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8 > there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that > aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining > deems it necessary. > > Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden > the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. > The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, > a significant fraction of SD8 output. That > amount of current would be better used to > keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies > lit up . . . but if your load analysis says > that contactor loads can be handily support > as part of your plan-b loads, then no > problem! > > 3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup > batteries that will power essential systems only for > flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout > bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your > flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut > down it's usually fine but every once in a while the > engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets, > clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be > useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the > nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus > with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself > would be something I would use just about every flight. > > Brown out/endurance/clearance are one > and the same bus. Why nav lights? > > 4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming > the norm rather than the exception for new amateur > built aircraft. > > Yup, the seeds were already in the ground > at my first trip to OSH in '86. There > were a couple electronic ignitions being > offered that year not the least of what > would become LightSpeed. > > Bob . . . > -- Stay strong. Read books. Listen to music. Ignore the orange psychopath. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Several >times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? At 11:41 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden >=C2 the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. >=C2 The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, >=C2 a significant fraction of SD8 output. That >=C2 amount of current would be better used to >=C2 keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies >=C2 lit up . . . but if your load analysis says >=C2 that contactor loads can be handily support >=C2 as part of=C2 your plan-b loads, then no >=C2 problem! > >Are solid state contactor loads significantly >less than the traditional contactors? Yes. I'm not yet convinced that going solid-state has a useful return on investment . . . what are you planning to spend on an SS battery contactor? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:08 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? I'm not planning on an SS contactor, just wondering if that info was factored into the decision of e-bus/no e-bus? On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 11:41 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: > > Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden > =C3=82 the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load. > =C3=82 The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load, > =C3=82 a significant fraction of SD8 output. That > =C3=82 amount of current would be better used to > =C3=82 keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies > =C3=82 lit up . . . but if your load analysis says > =C3=82 that contactor loads can be handily support > =C3=82 as part of=C3=82 your plan-b loads, then no > =C3=82 problem! > > Are solid state contactor loads significantly less than the traditional > contactors? > > > Yes. I'm not yet convinced that going > solid-state has a useful return on > investment . . . what are you planning > to spend on an SS battery contactor? > > > Bob . . . > -- Stay strong. Read books. Listen to music. Ignore the orange psychopath. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:31 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's only useful with the engine running. Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: > > I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. > Several > times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. > > > You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? At 12:29 PM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >I'm not planning on an SS contactor, just wondering if that info >was factored into the decision of e-bus/no e-bus? It's the LOAD ANALYSIS that drives such decisions . . . it's among the first documents to be created and evolved as any new design hits the drawing boards. Contactor loads will be cited for consideration as the design process moves along. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:05 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alarm flashing? On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: > Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's > only useful with the engine running. > > Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the > aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >> >> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. >> Several >> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. >> >> >> You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:01 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? At 02:57 PM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but >that's only useful with the engine running. >Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the >aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. Yup. The LV warning light on B&C controllers is active whether or not the engine is running. Also, it's not difficult to add an appropriately obnoxious stand-alone warning device. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Revmaster R2300 Ignition From: "dj_theis" My question is related to the VW derivative, Revmaster 2300 and the ignition control wiring. The Remaster manual has a description of the ignition as a CDI powered by 2 independent and internal coils on the flywheel. The ignition system has 8 coils (one on each plug). Run up and testing is done by turning off (via pulling to ground) the equivalent of "P" leads for each of the 4 independent ignition circuits. During normal run-up the operator might kill the top plugs by bringing two of the switches to ground (equivalent of maybe right or left on a dual magneto system). OK, that is probably more confusing than it needs to be but here is my question. I'm thinking it might be useful / advantageous, to use a traditional ignition switch. So, Attached is my scenario where I've included four relays to pull the CDI ignition to ground from the ignition switch. Question, using automotive relays, would the coil current be detrimental to the life of the ignition? Any other reason this would not work? Thanks for your consideration. -------- Scratch building Sonex #1362 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495653#495653 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster_2300_r11a_ingnition_ckt_212.pdf ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:48 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England wrote: > If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alarm > flashing? > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: > >> Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's >> only useful with the engine running. >> >> Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the >> aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. >> >> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >>> >>> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. >>> Several >>> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. >>> >>> >>> You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:21 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? The problem with an obnoxious warning device is that it is obnoxious. I'm not about to add something that warns me that my clearance delivery switch is on since it will be on before almost every flight. But if you have a circuit design for an obnoxious warning that only signals when my brain has forgotten something, I'll take it. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:47 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 02:57 PM 4/6/2020, you wrote: > > Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's > only useful with the engine running. > Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the > aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. > > > Yup. The LV warning light on B&C controllers > is active whether or not the engine is running. > Also, it's not difficult to add an appropriately > obnoxious stand-alone warning device. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:51 PM PST US From: John B Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? You left the master switch on??? This is easy to do, in a cockpit with only one crewmember, as there is no valid challenge-response shutdown checklist like the ones used in crewed aircraft. To (hopefully) ameliorate this possibility in my Yak 55M, I've installed a Davtron voltmeter. The display is rather large. It displays bus voltage, thus, any time the master switch is on, system voltage is displayed. The cost of the meter is less than the inconvenience of a dead battery, and it weighs about as much as a pack of cigarettes... I picked green, but other colors are available, and I believe it dims automatically... ('Not a factor in a day-VFR aerobatic airplane.) Dark cockpit=Master switch off. As an aside, read the fine print on the B&C voltage regulator. The low volt light may NOT flash if one's battery is well-charged. Bob, can you add to this? John B On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:40 PM Sebastien wrote: > The problem with an obnoxious warning device is that it is obnoxious. I'm > not about to add something that warns me that my clearance delivery switch > is on since it will be on before almost every flight. > > But if you have a circuit design for an obnoxious warning that only > signals when my brain has forgotten something, I'll take it. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:47 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 02:57 PM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >> >> Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's >> only useful with the engine running. >> Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the >> aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. >> >> >> Yup. The LV warning light on B&C controllers >> is active whether or not the engine is running. >> Also, it's not difficult to add an appropriately >> obnoxious stand-alone warning device. >> >> Bob . . . >> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:05 PM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? FYI... On the topic of low-power master relays as an alternative to traditional "t in-can" or solid-state relays, Here is a Bosch relay with contacts rated 75A and the coil draws around 0.2 A, (instead of 0.7A or higher as with some "tin-can" relays).=C2- I'm us ing it for my master relay. It costs about $35. Bosch part #: V23232-D0001-X001 Here an Amazon link:=C2-https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0117FAGVO?tag=duckdu ckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 On Monday, April 6, 2020, 04:52:27 PM PDT, Sebastien wrote: It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England wrote: If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alarm flashing? On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's on ly useful with the engine running. Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the aircra ft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: I have the Nav lights on anytimethe aircraft is electrically powered. Sever al times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a deadbattery. =C2-You don't have obnoxious notification of lowvolts? =C2- Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:23 PM PST US From: DeWitt Whittington Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? I solved the problem of leaving the master switch on years ago when I was in 4 Cessna flying club. I instituted a protocol of leaving the flashing beacon (tail strobe) on all the time. Much brighter than the nav lights. After that no one of the 50 or so members walked out with that flashing light so totally obvious after closing the hangar door and turning of the fluorescent lighting. Problem solved. Dee > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:30 PM, Sebastien wrote: > > It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England > wrote: > If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alarm flashing? > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien > wrote: > Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's only useful with the engine running. > > Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: > At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Several >> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. > > You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:08 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? I'm starting to get the feeling that no one around here owns an airplane :). I have never left the master switch on after a flight, the checklist doesn't get put away until it's done. But if you have the master on while you are working on the airplane, and then do something for a couple minutes on the bench, and then decide to stop for lunch, it's a lot harder to walk away from a powered up aircraft if the nav lights are on. In fact the only times I've ever managed to do it was when some well meaning idiot turned the nav lights off for me. It's standard practice for the airlines, I've always made it standard practice for all aircraft I fly or manage. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 17:17 John B wrote: > You left the master switch on??? This is easy to do, in a cockpit with > only one crewmember, as there is no valid challenge-response shutdown > checklist like the ones used in crewed aircraft. To (hopefully) > ameliorate this possibility in my Yak 55M, I've installed a Davtron > voltmeter. The display is rather large. It displays bus voltage, thus, > any time the master switch is on, system voltage is displayed. The cost of > the meter is less than the inconvenience of a dead battery, and it weighs > about as much as a pack of cigarettes... I picked green, but other colors > are available, and I believe it dims automatically... ('Not a factor in a > day-VFR aerobatic airplane.) Dark cockpit=Master switch off. > > As an aside, read the fine print on the B&C voltage regulator. The low > volt light may NOT flash if one's battery is well-charged. Bob, can you > add to this? > > John B > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:40 PM Sebastien wrote: > >> The problem with an obnoxious warning device is that it is obnoxious. I'm >> not about to add something that warns me that my clearance delivery switch >> is on since it will be on before almost every flight. >> >> But if you have a circuit design for an obnoxious warning that only >> signals when my brain has forgotten something, I'll take it. >> >> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:47 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 02:57 PM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >>> >>> Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's >>> only useful with the engine running. >>> Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the >>> aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. >>> >>> >>> Yup. The LV warning light on B&C controllers >>> is active whether or not the engine is running. >>> Also, it's not difficult to add an appropriately >>> obnoxious stand-alone warning device. >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >> ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? From: Charlie England I wonder how many 300A spikes from the starter motor coming on line it'll take to let the magic smoke out of an 75A relay. You can get 'cube' type automotive relays rated at up to ~120A, but even those I wouldn't want to run starter current through. Charlie On 4/6/2020 7:23 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > FYI... > > On the topic of low-power master relays as an alternative to > traditional "tin-can" or solid-state relays, > > Here is a Bosch relay with contacts rated 75A and the coil draws > around 0.2 A, (instead of 0.7A or higher as with some "tin-can" > relays). I'm using it for my master relay. It costs about $35. > > Bosch part #: V23232-D0001-X001 > > Here an Amazon link: > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0117FAGVO?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 > > > On Monday, April 6, 2020, 04:52:27 PM PDT, Sebastien > wrote: > > > It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England > wrote: > > If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the > LV alarm flashing? > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien > wrote: > > Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm > but that's only useful with the engine running. > > Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away > from the aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead > battery. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > wrote: > > At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is >> electrically powered. Several >> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a >> dead battery. > > You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? > > Bob . . . > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:38 PM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Hey Charlie, My start solenoid is not downstream of the master relay, so it won't ever s ee starter current. On Monday, April 6, 2020, 06:05:27 PM PDT, Charlie England wrote: I wonder how many 300A spikes from the starter motor coming on line it'll take to let the magic smoke out of an 75A relay. You can get 'cube' type a utomotive relays rated at up to=C2- ~120A, but=C2- even those I wouldn' t want to run starter current through. Charlie On 4/6/2020 7:23 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: FYI... On the topic of low-power master relays as an alternative to traditional "tin-can" or solid-state relays, Here is a Bosch relay with contacts rated 75A and the coil draws around 0 .2 A, (instead of 0.7A or higher as with some "tin-can" relays).=C2- I'm using it for my master relay. It costs about $35. Bosch part #: V23232-D0001-X001 Here an Amazon link:=C2-https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0117FAGVO?tag=duck duckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 On Monday, April 6, 2020, 04:52:27 PM PDT, Sebastien wrote: It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England wrote: If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alar m flashing? On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's o nly useful with the engine running. Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the airc raft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Seve ral times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. =C2-You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? =C2- Bob . . . | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:25 PM PST US From: A R Goldman Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? And the resistance in the device is???? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:14 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > > Hey Charlie, > > My start solenoid is not downstream of the master relay, so it won't ever s ee starter current. > > > > On Monday, April 6, 2020, 06:05:27 PM PDT, Charlie England wrote: > > > I wonder how many 300A spikes from the starter motor coming on line it'll t ake to let the magic smoke out of an 75A relay. You can get 'cube' type auto motive relays rated at up to ~120A, but even those I wouldn't want to run s tarter current through. > > Charlie > >> On 4/6/2020 7:23 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > > FYI... > > On the topic of low-power master relays as an alternative to traditional " tin-can" or solid-state relays, > > Here is a Bosch relay with contacts rated 75A and the coil draws around 0. 2 A, (instead of 0.7A or higher as with some "tin-can" relays). I'm using i t for my master relay. It costs about $35. > > Bosch part #: V23232-D0001-X001 > > Here an Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0117FAGVO?tag=duckduckgo -d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 > > > On Monday, April 6, 2020, 04:52:27 PM PDT, Sebastien wr ote: > > > It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England wrote: > If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV alarm flashing? > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: > Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's o nly useful with the engine running. > > Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the aircr aft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Se veral >> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. > > You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? > > Bob . . . > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:23 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? That works too Dee if you have a red beacon. I find the nav lights a better option since it's visible from any angle, and also because the beacon normally is used on the ground to warn people that engines are running or that the aircraft may move whereas the convention for nav lights on the ground indicates the aircraft is powered. Also many amateur built aircraft do not have a beacon since the strobe lights meet the requirement for a beacon. I think leaving the strobes on might be a little aggressive :). On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 17:50 DeWitt Whittington wrote: > I solved the problem of leaving the master switch on years ago when I was > in 4 Cessna flying club. I instituted a protocol of leaving the flashing > beacon (tail strobe) on all the time. Much brighter than the nav lights. > After that no one of the 50 or so members walked out with that flashing > light so totally obvious after closing the hangar door and turning of the > fluorescent lighting. Problem solved. > > Dee > > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:30 PM, Sebastien wrote: > > It is flashing, inside the plane. Doesn't help outside the plane. > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 14:51 Charlie England wrote: > >> If your master is on, but the engine isn't running, Why isn't the LV >> alarm flashing? >> >> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sebastien wrote: >> >>> Yes, anything less than 13.8 V gives a visual and audio alarm but that's >>> only useful with the engine running. >>> >>> Doesn't help when forgetting the master on and walking away from the >>> aircraft to come back a couple days later with a dead battery. >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:24 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >>> >>>> At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote: >>>> >>>> I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. >>>> Several >>>> times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery. >>>> >>>> >>>> You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts? >>>> >>>> Bob . . . >>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.