Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (don van santen)
2. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:37 AM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (user9253)
4. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (don van santen)
6. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (C&K)
7. 04:55 PM - Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition (user9253)
8. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:29 PM - Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition (dj_theis)
11. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (don van santen)
12. 07:18 PM - Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controllers (Tim Jennings)
13. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Pat Little)
14. 09:33 PM - Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (johnbright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Hi Bob, This is my second reply to this thread. You did not answer my
first reply, maybe you missed it.
I like the Z01 architecture but would also like Z12 to stay available.
I have a dual AFS efis system and and an Avidyne 540 gps navigator.
The AFS systems have primary and back up power inputs'
The system will only boot when power is applied to the normal power
input ports. The back up system is a TCW backup battery. It switches
on when voltage drops below 13.1 volts.
The backup system is on at all times that the engine is not running.
The backup can be turned off via a switch that a ground wire passes
through. So the system is in charge mode above 13.1 volts and below
that voltage the standby is in output mode I turn the standby off when
I power the master down and back on then I turn the master on.
is means that the backup battery is only functioning as a
brown out protection device. The Avidyne does not have separate backup
power input ports.
My question is whether the brown out booster shown in Z-01 is capable
of powering two efis systems and a a gps navigator during engine
start? If more information is needed please let me know what you would
need to answer my question. Thanks in advance. Don
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 12:22 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 10:49 AM 4/3/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> Moving this to the correct thread. Anyone see any issues with Bob's new/proposed
architecture for an IO-360 with one mag and one electronic ignition? Would
folks recommend the ignition be on the Battery bus?
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z99P1.pdf
>
>
> That was not so much a 'proposal' as the
> seed for the evolution of a replacement
> for Z12 . . . dual alternator, single battery,
> electrically dependent engine.
>
> The Z99 was a first pass sketch that ultimately
> moved to the proposal/discussion stage
> with Z01.
>
> Z01P3 as presently posted is the latest iteration
> and as Joe noted, still needs the 'nits' combed
> out.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/qnzenca
>
> No bus requires more than powering up the aircraft
> with DC power master switch to become HOT. Any
> time the main bus is up, all busses are up
> irrespective the position of any other switch.
>
> Given two, robust alternators, the endurance-
> bus function is unnecessary. There is no time
> that one might expect to operate battery
> only.
>
> There is a 'brownout' bus which is optional
> and could be 'boosted' during cranking if
> the airplane is fitted with any electro-whizzies
> vulnerable to cranking brownout. At a minimum,
> this bus might power the #1 comm transceiver
> whereupon the crew controlled, alternate feed to this
> bus could be used to power up just that radio
> to get clearance delivery (an optional feature
> going into Bonanzas and Barons while I was
> still working there).
>
> If the system supports no devices needing
> always hot battery power, the battery bus
> can also be eliminated. The minimalist
> configuration for Z01 would be a MAIN
> and ENGINE bus.
>
> The engine bus also features an crew controlled,
> alternate feed directly from the battery. There
> is no single failure of the power system that
> would cause loss of engine.
>
> There are only 4 switches of which only one
> has profound control over the status of ship's
> power. The other 3 are normally OFF pending
> failures that prompt reconfiguration.
>
> Suggested accessories go to simplifying
> installation while minimizing costs
> and potential pilot workloads.
>
> If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
> to refine this configuration with an eye
> to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
At 09:51 PM 4/7/2020, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>are you talking about the start solenoid coil circuit or the starter
>motor circuit?
>
The spirit and intent of a crew controlled, master power
disconnect feature is to make as much of the aircraft
electrically cold when in the OFF position.
As it was presented to me (many moons ago) the
benefits were two-fold: (1) reduced risk for
post-crash fire and (2) ground/maintenance safety -
no chance for inadvertent motion of machinery
or hazards sparks during maintenance ops.
The exceptions called for feeders off the battery
bus protected at no more than 5A.
I've endeavored to embrace that philosophy.
First as a requirement of my job (TC aircraft)
and later (OBAM aircraft) because it was
not a BAD idea. It was easy to implement
and not a significant impediment to crafting
elegant architectures.
Z01 as currently proposed ties the aux
alternator b-lead to the battery via
fusible link. This sorta resurrects
the old Z13/8 which 'bugged' me based
on my professional experience. Nonetheless,
an always-hot, aux alternator b-lead offered
a way to simply implement the three-layered
source philosophies of Z13/8 and Z13/20.
I'm going to publish the 4th iteration
of Z01 in the next few days. I've got
a 7th grade grandson sheltering-in-place
and spooling up online schooling. Man!
I don't think I'd ever have the patience
to wrestle with a room full of 7th
graders! One is entirely enough!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Don, it is up to the builder to choose suitable components. eBay has several
DC-DC converters (brown out boosters). Most of them are made in China
and the product capabilities are greatly exaggerated. The the advertised
rating might twice of the product's actual capacity. Buyer beware.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495698#495698
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
At 02:05 AM 4/8/2020, you wrote:
><donvansanten@gmail.com>
>
>Hi Bob, This is my second reply to this thread. You did not answer my
>first reply, maybe you missed it.
sorry . . . yes
>I like the Z01 architecture but would also like Z12 to stay available.
. . . Z12 isn't going to 'go away'. It simply moves
down the hierarchy of preference for elegance in
architecture. It may not appear in later editions of
the 'Connecton but there's thousands of paper copies
and unknown digital copies that will continue to illustrate
and explain Z12. Elegance, like beauty, is in the
eye of the beholder . . . if preferences depicted in
my publications don't rise to your own standards
for elegance . . . no problem! Except for the aux
alternator b-lead terminator, Z01 is fundamentally
identical to Z12.
>I have a dual AFS efis system and and an Avidyne 540 gps navigator.
>The AFS systems have primary and back up power inputs'
<snip>
> is means that the backup battery is only functioning as a
>brown out protection device. The Avidyne does not have separate backup
>power input ports.
>
>My question is whether the brown out booster shown in Z-01 is capable
>of powering two efis systems and a a gps navigator during engine
>start? If more information is needed please let me know what you would
>need to answer my question.
The brownout booster is an off the shelf
step up power supply which can be acquired
in any needed size. What is the total running
current for powered-up devices on your
proposed brown-out bus?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Thanks Bob and Joe. I did not know these devices are available. I thought
it was something Bob had designed. My bad. I will need to look up the
measured currents for the two EFIS's and the Avidyne navigator. Again,
thanks for the help and the numbers will follow in a few days.
Don
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 10:43 user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don, it is up to the builder to choose suitable components. eBay has
> several
> DC-DC converters (brown out boosters). Most of them are made in China
> and the product capabilities are greatly exaggerated. The the advertised
> rating might twice of the product's actual capacity. Buyer beware.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495698#495698
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
On 08/04/2020 1:32 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Don, it is up to the builder to choose suitable components. eBay has several
> DC-DC converters (brown out boosters). Most of them are made in China
> and the product capabilities are greatly exaggerated. The the advertised
> rating might twice of the product's actual capacity. Buyer beware.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
I have found that such ebay ratings may be reasonable IF additional heat
sinks or forced air cooling is used. It can take a little digging to
figure that out though as the final ebay re-seller may not mention those
details and may not be aware of them or understand them. For short duty
cycles it may not matter anyway.
Off topic quote (probably from a teacher) regarding Bob K's comment on
the seventh grade student.
"with all the students at home these days, it is just possible that a
whole bunch of parents are going to realize that the teacher is NOT the
problem..." ;)
Ken
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition |
Why not eliminate the toggle switches and relays and only use the mag switch?
It seems that more components will increase the chances of ignition failure.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495704#495704
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
At 01:47 PM 4/8/2020, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob and Joe. I did not know these devices
>are available. I thought it was something Bob
>had designed. My bad. I will need to look up the
>measured currents for the two EFIS's and the
>Avidyne navigator.=C2 Again, thanks for the help
>and the numbers will follow in a few days.
>Don
When you've got those numbers, let me
dig through the samples I have on hand.
We may just have the device you need.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition |
At 06:49 PM 4/8/2020, you wrote:
>
>Why not eliminate the toggle switches and relays and only use the mag switch?
> It seems that more components will increase the chances of ignition failure.
From the installation literature I surmise that
this engine has a rather comprehensive ign-test
protocol orchestrated with various combinations
of the four modules being OFF/ON. It lets you
detect a failure of any single ignition module
out of eight . . . rather clever . . . but
it sho doesn't play nice with your grandpa's
keyswitch!
I've been stirring the murky options but
haven't had a eureka moment . . . but
to be sure, adding relays is waayyy down
on the list of options. This makes the engine
electrically dependent if only to gracefully
orchestrate OFF-PREFLIGHT-RUN conditions.
Methinks a DC-Free control system is much to
be desired.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster R2300 Ignition |
Thanks for the response Joe,
>Why not eliminate the toggle switches and relays and only use the mag >switch?
>It seems that more components will increase the chances of ignition failure
Agreed, but the Revmaster requires 4 individual "pull to ground" switches. All
aviation switches available only have two "P" lead circuits, right?
Two 700- 2-3 switches achieve the Revmaster requirement/suggestion for four - single
pole switches. That is how I originally drew the ckt.
Two more 700-2-7 provided the circuits to execute their diagnostic routine described
in the write up (shown in the last version I posted).
The simple thing is to use the 4 switches for the ignition, have a key switch if
I felt the need (for false security) to power the start circuit only (no mag
check through the key) and just a simple push button start. Like the C120 I
flew for my tail wheel endorsement.
It always made me grumble when I would go to start the 120 and rotate the key switch
to engage the starter, with the only noise I would hear was my tail wheel
instructor chuckling under his breath because I forgot it had a push button
start (again).
Yes, adding the relays and implementing a scheme to have it "behave" like a traditional
magneto ignition may be a little too cute. Assuming it would operate
reliably.
Thanks once again for your time and consideration.
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495707#495707
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Thank you.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 17:13 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 01:47 PM 4/8/2020, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob and Joe. I did not know these devices are available. I thought
> it was something Bob had designed. My bad. I will need to look up the
> measured currents for the two EFIS's and the Avidyne navigator.=C3=82 Ag
ain,
> thanks for the help and the numbers will follow in a few days.
> Don
>
>
> When you've got those numbers, let me
> dig through the samples I have on hand.
> We may just have the device you need.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controllers
I appreciate everyone's help weighing in on my led conversion but
unfortunately the solution
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg did not yield
a working result. On the bench the prescribed setup with the resistors and
led will light glow with less than 12 volts.
This is the what I installed using (2) 470 ohm 1/2 watt resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/album/AF1QipO48K-4aac4ebIgVK0cW2M1K4pc6PHraYVAbI1-/photo/AF1QipOu4ngJUoHPeIDtJfU9exkR_yqEuci58p2X84yy
Meter across the leads south of resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/album/AF1QipO48K-4aac4ebIgVK0cW2M1K4pc6PHraYVAbI1-/photo/AF1QipNqgRle3wwH-JKK5UUHj96cDbfPjq7Atb2JyfnZ
The incandescent bulb glows fine when installed, unplug the incandescent
lamp and plug the led/resistors into the circuit and NO light.
Please help!
Thanks,
Tim Jennings
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
Bob, I'm surprised by your suggestion to " buy from folks like the
AeroElectic Connection" - I have been reading in "the book" and many of
your web articles about products the Aeroelectric Connection sold - but it
all seemed to be in the past. I say that because I haven't been able to
find any of these products on your website. But now you said it in a recent
email so it must be true - how do I order form you?
Pat
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 9:59 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
<snip>
> When purchasing contactors, legacy name brands
> are the best bet. Or buy from folks like
> the AeroElectic Connection (lifetime satisfaction
> warranty) or B&C (will bend over backwards to
> keep you happy) and you'll get a product
> with a track record. Digikey et als only
> sell name brand parts supported by spec sheets
> NEVER offered by fly-by-night supplier/manufacturers
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controller
photos don't work
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495716#495716
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