Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (Tim Jennings)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (Tim Jennings)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (johnbright)
4. 06:00 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/08/20 (Tim Jennings)
5. 06:00 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/08/20 (Tim Jennings)
6. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:41 AM - New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (wsimpso1)
8. 09:02 AM - Curiosity Re: Master Switch (bcone1381)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (Foghorn Inc)
10. 09:34 AM - Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch (David Saylor)
11. 09:38 AM - Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch (Sebastien)
12. 10:16 AM - Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (user9253)
13. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (John)
14. 11:01 AM - Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 11:05 AM - Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator controller (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 11:10 AM - Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 05:11 PM - Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (wsimpso1)
20. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controller
I appreciate everyone's help weighing in on my led conversion but
unfortunately the solution
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg did not yield
a working result. On the bench the prescribed setup with the resistors and
led will light glow with less than 12 volts.
The incandescent bulb glows fine when installed, unplug the incandescent
lamp and plug the led/resistors into the circuit and NO light.
Please help!
Thanks,
Tim Jennings
How about these pictures?
This is the what I installed using (2) 470 ohm 1/2 watt resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipNK32NGafJYbg6dvBvLBopP_KdKv1CLJZ0
5c_A8
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wMS_B-y6-B0am4bi6bE3O_KqChOxjxmimix14oI6e
LUN02qKtgkCL2x3obztPBLACHOM2rbBzGMcnGj6bVwwIWfZKFZF-Ekcgczs8EyeUHhR5lZBk_P5
epwRy7KRbrhrGsf-jfwMdzl0NRXTy-h62Kp7DPu9W1Mn5-TA1uUYpL3x-YmZtbQwG9AXLkLwgeK
-pWXea8I_ggU3Hn2x8wmDk6IQR9cIFABHRQpnHk4RtbVAR0BrV98dHgmRvsX7Whbpi0saL0eUCW
NMmhZCI3KkMjd65skCd88ro6T9angjb4rj94D3PuRetSJdtBAK7urwvtcsqPxtAeBbgmlouDnMM
ZmautUfcVtMKxnW-iwLxraXG9ybDb9LzUtcKYf_IybpBdFBmXuR9OLyk-gr6F0ARe1RgUjWGi21
e27RCEKK5AgXYyrZjoCDsBz5bBKztCOTwINgvvrVBTG-NgkiQiVawtog_nrwnYPXViFZ9oRCmIK
V0YOxf9sSZ46T-sxonZTpgOwqsg3uRUoU38xuuM6pPk_4FlK-MxMqqfVmgLg3bhW0RpA80R-JKX
msHeZK14gpFVkzUG1hCHHXg060_odm85l7ygIXnzzmKvhojYeA7UFEKw-rBusHqBduE_qTC14mz
XdzzLK29fR2Y_SJmblPioBCGmtS13yKYk0esRzrfYO675Ov6RL6iVsdHpkHZQ=w710-h200-n
o
Meter across the leads south of resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/album/AF1QipO48K-4aac4ebIgVK0cW2M1K4pc6PHraYV
AbI1-/photo/AF1QipNqgRle3wwH-JKK5UUHj96cDbfPjq7Atb2JyfnZ
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9tbMw3NPq8IsfZ9hjM0Iu1xIoyRJ7aecZFLFw-0Rc
27QR32ikB4a4L5uqRHekoHwTVgbfRPnUarqibjen5SHt7DU-VxpKNx8CNZquN2j_fARKqozu2fX
oLNAGBctBUXR5nFroGtUf-3yzL_JqLCaaR5EE2iXKR-9F0JiP6_e80TzCT0NxD7u9DZhWl2WwVF
aNBmZFmZwo8jibKpBmnYOy5SE587u-7tRs7191KQ1UERM8W5UqSMQJpABV4NlG-bTcry3GVzDvt
ALj2V7UjwRswhODla89rqjoM4tkTCIV-9mJsMm8KwxOCOUqD2hH9nTMAHjhGirEgzGp-3OpRCgX
vkzQBusode5Z6dQYHFwke3Mm-cawo5NJ2rJ12T0Ao3Z7mJxKXi8Jz9jIF2Xe3H5qN4ldc37x2IK
KwzKX7AMSfdGppkVbimzEU1-E_Q9WhCAcEbkn_tdfm4d1Bdga-T4mp_NAGEmcStBAvoCkEcaVIq
btTvaRe2p8MTcKDeYvNh2a12-NVJ3ZfLegnCOPBedJwT5ImpfAvp9POv3IU8dQ8Irf_8Y5O5Tey
Z3EajGLUja_igqBNkIxEAVRtYWVSe_vPHHilXLdNBnsf0rmnCK8mDTu5b2TLNvE3_UqCP0EotZS
gmRurSSaoG6EIEKtpt1EJHpeawDpEFx3tiJgn6B10MopcKSrgRGTsCIZgFLtw=w453-h930-n
o
>
>
> Time: 09:33:27 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C
> alternator
> controller
> From: "johnbright" <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>
> photos don't work
>
> --------
> John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
> Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
> john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495716#495716
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
*- Tim Jennings*
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controller
I appreciate everyone's help weighing in on my led conversion but
unfortunately the solution
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg did not yield
a working result. On the bench the prescribed setup with the resistors and
led will light glow with less than 12 volts.
The incandescent bulb glows fine when installed, unplug the incandescent
lamp and plug the led/resistors into the circuit and NO light.
Please help!
Thanks,
Tim Jennings
How about these pictures?
This is the what I installed using (2) 470 ohm 1/2 watt resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipNK32NGafJYbg6dvBvLBopP_KdKv1CLJZ0
5c_A8
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wMS_B-y6-B0am4bi6bE3O_KqChOxjxmimix14oI6e
LUN02qKtgkCL2x3obztPBLACHOM2rbBzGMcnGj6bVwwIWfZKFZF-Ekcgczs8EyeUHhR5lZBk_P5
epwRy7KRbrhrGsf-jfwMdzl0NRXTy-h62Kp7DPu9W1Mn5-TA1uUYpL3x-YmZtbQwG9AXLkLwgeK
-pWXea8I_ggU3Hn2x8wmDk6IQR9cIFABHRQpnHk4RtbVAR0BrV98dHgmRvsX7Whbpi0saL0eUCW
NMmhZCI3KkMjd65skCd88ro6T9angjb4rj94D3PuRetSJdtBAK7urwvtcsqPxtAeBbgmlouDnMM
ZmautUfcVtMKxnW-iwLxraXG9ybDb9LzUtcKYf_IybpBdFBmXuR9OLyk-gr6F0ARe1RgUjWGi21
e27RCEKK5AgXYyrZjoCDsBz5bBKztCOTwINgvvrVBTG-NgkiQiVawtog_nrwnYPXViFZ9oRCmIK
V0YOxf9sSZ46T-sxonZTpgOwqsg3uRUoU38xuuM6pPk_4FlK-MxMqqfVmgLg3bhW0RpA80R-JKX
msHeZK14gpFVkzUG1hCHHXg060_odm85l7ygIXnzzmKvhojYeA7UFEKw-rBusHqBduE_qTC14mz
XdzzLK29fR2Y_SJmblPioBCGmtS13yKYk0esRzrfYO675Ov6RL6iVsdHpkHZQ=w710-h200-n
o
Meter across the leads south of resistors:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/album/AF1QipO48K-4aac4ebIgVK0cW2M1K4pc6PHraYV
AbI1-/photo/AF1QipNqgRle3wwH-JKK5UUHj96cDbfPjq7Atb2JyfnZ
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9tbMw3NPq8IsfZ9hjM0Iu1xIoyRJ7aecZFLFw-0Rc
27QR32ikB4a4L5uqRHekoHwTVgbfRPnUarqibjen5SHt7DU-VxpKNx8CNZquN2j_fARKqozu2fX
oLNAGBctBUXR5nFroGtUf-3yzL_JqLCaaR5EE2iXKR-9F0JiP6_e80TzCT0NxD7u9DZhWl2WwVF
aNBmZFmZwo8jibKpBmnYOy5SE587u-7tRs7191KQ1UERM8W5UqSMQJpABV4NlG-bTcry3GVzDvt
ALj2V7UjwRswhODla89rqjoM4tkTCIV-9mJsMm8KwxOCOUqD2hH9nTMAHjhGirEgzGp-3OpRCgX
vkzQBusode5Z6dQYHFwke3Mm-cawo5NJ2rJ12T0Ao3Z7mJxKXi8Jz9jIF2Xe3H5qN4ldc37x2IK
KwzKX7AMSfdGppkVbimzEU1-E_Q9WhCAcEbkn_tdfm4d1Bdga-T4mp_NAGEmcStBAvoCkEcaVIq
btTvaRe2p8MTcKDeYvNh2a12-NVJ3ZfLegnCOPBedJwT5ImpfAvp9POv3IU8dQ8Irf_8Y5O5Tey
Z3EajGLUja_igqBNkIxEAVRtYWVSe_vPHHilXLdNBnsf0rmnCK8mDTu5b2TLNvE3_UqCP0EotZS
gmRurSSaoG6EIEKtpt1EJHpeawDpEFx3tiJgn6B10MopcKSrgRGTsCIZgFLtw=w453-h930-n
o
>
>
> Time: 09:33:27 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C
> alternator
> controller
> From: "johnbright" <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>
> photos don't work
>
> --------
> John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
> Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
> john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495716#495716
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
*- Tim Jennings*
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controller
Hi Tim,
Sorry to say the photo links still do not work, at least for me. You could attach
them to a posting on Aeroelectric List or this instruction might help... scroll
to "create a shared album" and "send a link to share".
https://support.google.com/photos/answer/6131416?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495721#495721
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/08/20 |
Thanks John.
How about now. I feel like the Verizon commercial. Haha
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dHpuxEwpKpTNisEaA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/N1kTbHUFfKQAqgFf7
>
>
> Time: 09:33:27 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C
> alternator
> controller
> From: "johnbright" <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>
> photos don't work
>
> --------
> John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
> Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
> john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495716#495716
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/08/20 |
Thanks John.
How about now. I feel like the Verizon commercial. Haha
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dHpuxEwpKpTNisEaA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/N1kTbHUFfKQAqgFf7
>
>
> Time: 09:33:27 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C
> alternator
> controller
> From: "johnbright" <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>
> photos don't work
>
> --------
> John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
> Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
> john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495716#495716
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C alternator |
controller
At 06:36 AM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>I appreciate everyone's help weighing in on my led conversion but
>unfortunately the solution
><http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg>http://aeroel
ectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg=C2
>did not yield
>a working result.=C2 On the bench the prescribed setup with the resistors
and
>led will light glow with less than 12 volts.=C2 =C2
>
>The incandescent bulb glows fine when installed, unplug the incandescent
>lamp and plug the led/resistors into the circuit and NO light.
Is your lamp wired correctly? An LED is
polarity sensitive. Try swapping your
lamp/resistor array wires . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
I am a pretty good mechanical engineer, but electrics, well, please bear with me
as I learn.
Designing up my IFR electrics system, 2 Dynon displays and associated bits, Avidyne,
LED lighting, I was all set to go Z-14. Now Bob is talking new scheme to
be lighter, easier to build, maintain, and fly. I do not feel like I can really
judge what is needed and not, how to pick, etc. Done the reading, just not
experienced...
In the process, I have figured out that I need 30 amps continuous to turn on everything
and a few more amps to transmit. Hey, there are alternators at B&C that
can make Plan B just turn on the standby alternator and motor on. Cool!
Now to getting it cranked up without rebooting the electro-whizzies. Dynon makes
backup batteries. Avidyne has yet to answer on how they prefer to avoid brownout
reboots. Then we have brownout bus designs with relays and even have advice
to use DC-DC converters to keep 12VDC at the boxes. Remember, I am an ME, my
electric savvy is puny. Given the current state of knowledge, are we better
off with a 7-10 AH battery and the brownout bus or with the boosters, or even
both? Anybody have some brands and model numbers that are known to be pretty reliable
for these DC-DC gadgets?
With the stated 10,000 hour life of these alternators, maybe I should say two on
them plus the battery is enough and stop there. But let's say both are dead,
and I need an hour to get to a suitable approach. I can cut off the outside lights
and pitot heat, but the I gotta drive one Dynon, the Avidyne and the transponder
someway. Sounds like a good argument for a brownout battery that is an
infrastructure item rather than having backup batteries for each of several
boxes. Or does the FMEA score better with several independant backup batteries?
Seems better to have one COTS battery, relay, and switch than a bunch of propitiatory
batteries...
Billski
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495724#495724
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch |
In the Aeroelectric Connection Book has notes on Master Switches. (age Z11, Note
22) I'm curious, if an engine of not running, and the field switch to the
alternator is on, how much draw is there?
It seems to me like the bus is at 12V, and the Regulator sees 12V and wont be satisfied
until the bus is at 14V, but the regulator does not see that the engine
is not running and the alternator is not turning so I would think it want to
open up its throttle to wide open to try to get 14 V. And so it seems to me
like there would be a rather large draw.
I don't think me logic is right. School me.
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495725#495725
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
Bill,
Here is my electrical plan. I have SDS EFI, GRT Sport EX x 2, GPS175,
EIS and GTR-200 x 2. The SDS EFI runs from the ENG BUS. The GRTs get
primary power from the VP-X and secondary power from the E-BUS. The #2
GTR-200, GPS175, EIS, Stratus, GMA240, encoder and ARINC get power from
the E-BUS. The number one priority is to keep the ENG BUS and E-BUS
alive for continued emergency flight IFR.
Jeff Parker
> On 9Apr, 2020, at 09:39, wsimpso1 <wsimpso1@comcast.net> wrote:
>
<wsimpso1@comcast.net>
>
> I am a pretty good mechanical engineer, but electrics, well, please
bear with me as I learn.
>
> Designing up my IFR electrics system, 2 Dynon displays and associated
bits, Avidyne, LED lighting, I was all set to go Z-14. Now Bob is
talking new scheme to be lighter, easier to build, maintain, and fly. I
do not feel like I can really judge what is needed and not, how to pick,
etc. Done the reading, just not experienced...
>
> In the process, I have figured out that I need 30 amps continuous to
turn on everything and a few more amps to transmit. Hey, there are
alternators at B&C that can make Plan B just turn on the standby
alternator and motor on. Cool!
>
> Now to getting it cranked up without rebooting the electro-whizzies.
Dynon makes backup batteries. Avidyne has yet to answer on how they
prefer to avoid brownout reboots. Then we have brownout bus designs with
relays and even have advice to use DC-DC converters to keep 12VDC at the
boxes. Remember, I am an ME, my electric savvy is puny. Given the
current state of knowledge, are we better off with a 7-10 AH battery and
the brownout bus or with the boosters, or even both? Anybody have some
brands and model numbers that are known to be pretty reliable for these
DC-DC gadgets?
>
> With the stated 10,000 hour life of these alternators, maybe I should
say two on them plus the battery is enough and stop there. But let's say
both are dead, and I need an hour to get to a suitable approach. I can
cut off the outside lights and pitot heat, but the I gotta drive one
Dynon, the Avidyne and the transponder someway. Sounds like a good
argument for a brownout battery that is an infrastructure item rather
than having backup batteries for each of several boxes. Or does the FMEA
score better with several independant backup batteries? Seems better to
have one COTS battery, relay, and switch than a bunch of propitiatory
batteries...
>
> Billski
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495724#495724
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch |
My PlanePower alternator tries its best to make voltage with the engine
stopped. It pumps enough current through the field to make the alternator
case hot enough to blister my fingers. Literally. But without any
mechanical input, of course the output just stays at battery voltage.
The draw isn't enough to pop the 5A field circuit breaker. But the case
does get pretty hot. I'm sure the lack of cooling air is a factor as well.
--Dave
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 9:09 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In the Aeroelectric Connection Book has notes on Master Switches. (age
> Z11, Note 22) I'm curious, if an engine of not running, and the field
> switch to the alternator is on, how much draw is there?
>
> It seems to me like the bus is at 12V, and the Regulator sees 12V and wont
> be satisfied until the bus is at 14V, but the regulator does not see that
> the engine is not running and the alternator is not turning so I would
> think it want to open up its throttle to wide open to try to get 14 V. And
> so it seems to me like there would be a rather large draw.
>
> I don't think me logic is right. School me.
>
> --------
> Brooks Cone
> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495725#495725
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch |
Here is a graph of a typical shutdown. You can see the draw from the
battery go from about 10.5 to 9 when the alternator switch is selected off
after shutdown. We have seen the alternator field draw as much as 3A and
the builder noted that the alternator itself gets very hot if left on for a
while with the engine not running. For this reason we don't turn the
alternator on until after engine start and turn it off right after shutdown.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 9:09 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In the Aeroelectric Connection Book has notes on Master Switches. (age
> Z11, Note 22) I'm curious, if an engine of not running, and the field
> switch to the alternator is on, how much draw is there?
>
> It seems to me like the bus is at 12V, and the Regulator sees 12V and wont
> be satisfied until the bus is at 14V, but the regulator does not see that
> the engine is not running and the alternator is not turning so I would
> think it want to open up its throttle to wide open to try to get 14 V. And
> so it seems to me like there would be a rather large draw.
>
> I don't think me logic is right. School me.
>
> --------
> Brooks Cone
> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495725#495725
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
The simpler the electrical system is, the better. It will easier to understand
and build. It will cost less and weigh less. And there will be less chance of
failure or pilot error. So add features that you need, but not those that you
might need. However, there should be a plan B for any failure.
A DC-DC converter used for brownout protection seems like a good idea.
I do not know if anyone has actually installed one yet.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495730#495730
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C |
alternator controller
=EF=BB
=EF=BB
This is the sketch I received from B&C this winter when I asked about doing t
he same. Not sure if there is any difference from what is shown in your link
below.
Regards,
John
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 1:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
> =EF=BB At 06:36 AM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>> I appreciate everyone's help weighing in on my led conversion but
>> unfortunately the solution
>> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg=C3=82 did no
t yield
>> a working result.=C3=82 On the bench the prescribed setup with the resis
tors and
>> led will light glow with less than 12 volts.=C3=82 =C3=82
>>
>> The incandescent bulb glows fine when installed, unplug the incandescent
>> lamp and plug the led/resistors into the circuit and NO light.
>
> Is your lamp wired correctly? An LED is
> polarity sensitive. Try swapping your
> lamp/resistor array wires . . .
>
>
==========================
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch |
At 11:00 AM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>
>In the Aeroelectric Connection Book has notes on Master Switches.
>(age Z11, Note 22)
>I'm curious, if an engine of not running, and the field switch to
>the alternator
>is on, how much draw is there?
2-3 amps
>It seems to me like the bus is at 12V, and the Regulator sees 12V and wont be
>satisfied until the bus is at 14V, but the regulator does not see that
>the engine is not running and the alternator is not turning so I would
>think it want to open up its throttle to wide open to try to get 14 V.
>And so it seems to me like there would be a rather large draw.
>
>I don't think me logic is right. School me.
your analysis is correct. The regulator
will go to full-bore which connects the
field (~4 ohms) to the battery.
This is the reason for a progressive transfer
DC master switch . . . it lets you power
up battery-only while leaving the alternator
off. This reduces battery loads for ground
ops. It also reduces potential for damage
to field windings being fully excited without
benefit of cooling air.
In operation, field current will be on the
order of 1 amp.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Curiosity Re: Master Switch |
>
>The draw isn't enough to pop the 5A field circuit breaker.
>But the case does get pretty hot. I'm sure the lack of cooling
>air is a factor as well.
Correct. If you don't have a split rocker or
progressive transfer toggle switch for the
master, then it's advisable to pull the
field breaker for ground ops.
Some of the z-figures used to suggest
a simpler, easier to acquire, DPST
master switch COMBINED with a pullable
field breaker.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Incandescent to led conversion for B&C |
alternator controller
At 12:31 PM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>This is the sketch I received from B&C this winter when I asked about
>doing the same. Not sure if there is any difference from what is
>shown in your link below.
That's an earlier incarnation of the same
configuration first published about
20 years ago . . . I updated the drawing
to include both BARE BULB LED and 12V ANNUNCIATOR
assemblies already fitted with a series
resistor for 12v operation.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
At 11:06 AM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>Bill,
>
>Here is my electrical plan. I have SDS EFI, GRT Sport EX x 2,
>GPS175, EIS and GTR-200 x 2. The SDS EFI runs from the ENG BUS. The
>GRTs get primary power from the VP-X and secondary power from the
>E-BUS. The #2 GTR-200, GPS175, EIS, Stratus, GMA240, encoder and
>ARINC get power from the E-BUS. The number one priority is to keep
>the ENG BUS and E-BUS alive for continued emergency flight IFR.
>
Looks pretty much like Z01 . . .
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New role for the E-Bus? |
At 10:19 PM 4/8/2020, you wrote:
>Bob, I'm surprised by your suggestion to "=C2 buy from folks like
>the AeroElectic Connection" - I have been reading in "the book"
>and many of your web articles about products the Aeroelectric
>Connection sold - but it all seemed to be in the past. I say that
>because I haven't been able to find any of these products on
>your website. But now you said it in a recent email so it must
>be true - how do I order form you?
Sorry 'bout that . . . I didn't mean to infer that
we were still in the parts business. Sold that
part of our operations when Dr. Dee started
graduate school!
The thrust of the post was to look suppliers
of both HARDWARE and INFORMATION who have
proven track records. There are hundreds
of manufacturers for 'starter contactors'
the majority of which are probably fine for our
purposes . . . failure of a starter contactor
is a low-risk inconvenience. But if you're
disposed to worry about it then going
to proven sources for your part selection
should help . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
I shall repeat my questions without the distracting associated information:
Given the current state of knowledge, do we appear to be better off with a 7-10
AH battery on a brownout bus or with the boosters, or even both?
Anybody have some brands and model numbers that are known to be reliable for these
DC-DC gadgets that could be used as brownout boosters?
Which gives better reliability (scores better on FMEA) for backup power - backup
batteries on the individual boxes or a single battery, switch, and relay?
Billski
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495738#495738
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: New Design Schemes and Brownout Operation |
At 07:08 PM 4/9/2020, you wrote:
>
>Given the current state of knowledge, do we appear to be better
>off with a 7-10 AH battery on a brownout bus or with the boosters,
>or even both?
a battery supported brown-out bus is not
terribly elegant. The energy needed to
support the 'victim' electro-whizzies
is minuscule . . . 15V output at say
6A for (heaven forbid!) 10 Seconds
is a total of 900 Watt-Seconds. An
8 a.h. bat discharged at the same rate
is good for about an HOUR for about
300,000 Watt-Seconds. Further, it
weighs about 8 pounds and has a
short service life.
A booster will happily deliver
to the necessary load with a
weight penalty of less than 1
pound and a service life that probably
exceeds the life of the airplane.
>Anybody have some brands and model numbers that
>are known to be reliable for these DC-DC gadgets
>that could be used as brownout boosters?
These are not safety of flight
items. They are used for mere seconds
at the beginning of each flight . . .
failure to perform only means that
potential brown-out victims will
reset after engine start and continue
to work normally. Ergo, failure of
the device is at worst an inconvenience
requiring some attention when you get back
to your home field.
>Which gives better reliability (scores better on FMEA)
>for backup power - backup batteries on the individual
>boxes or a single battery, switch, and relay?
These are not BACKUP POWER . . . they
are a band-aid sadly needed because
some popular electro-whizzies did
didn't take DO160 qualification testing
to heart and make their product
brown-out resistant -OR- capable of
fast reboot . . . like 1-2 seconds.
Internal or external BACKUP batteries
called out by suppliers are yet another
band-aid. The supplier of every really
cool gizmo wants to believe that it's
always going to be there for you. They
correctly observe that they have no
control over YOUR choices for architecture.
So, the safe thing to do from a marketing
perspective is to include internal
backup battery or call for an external
backup battery in their installation
recommendations.
The downside is the same as cited above
for brown-out bus support. They're
a limited life product that demands
preventative maintenance for continue
airworthiness . . .
The discussions going to refinement
of Z01 strive to achieve bullet-proof
power sources not only for the really
slick electro-whizzies . . . but ALL
accessories needed for comfortable
termination of flight.
I suggest that goal can be achieved
with ONE . . . count 'em . . . ONE
well cared for battery and up to two
modern offerings for engine driven
power sources.
Bob . . .
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