---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/18/20: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:35 AM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Tom Barter) 2. 08:59 AM - Re: New role for the E-Bus? (Jeff Page) 3. 11:17 AM - OV B-lead Relay (Dan Fritz) 4. 12:14 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 5. 12:18 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 6. 12:28 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 7. 12:48 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 8. 01:26 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 9. 02:30 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 10. 03:36 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 11. 03:57 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Tom Barter) 12. 04:38 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Bill Bear) 13. 05:22 PM - Re: Aircraft Tug (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:51 AM PST US From: "Tom Barter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. Works very well on his RV-6. Tom Barter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Hello all I'm looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I'm looking at. One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I'm not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas Thanks Mike Virus-free. www.avast.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:42 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Hi Bob, Regarding the Engine Bus Alternate feed, I was envisioning it being on during normal flight operations, since pilots are trained to switch off the Master if they suspect an electrical fire. This would shut off the alternator too, resulting in the engine stopping unexpectedly. It is unlikely that the pilot would remember to turn on that switch before shutting off the Master, especially a second owner. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > Time: 04:36:32 PM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New role for the E-Bus? > > At 12:46 AM 4/17/2020, you wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> I just had a good look at Z101. I like it. Five comments, certainly >> things you have thought of. >> >> 1) There is no overvoltage protection for the aux alternator. I >> assume that is because having an overvoltage event immediately after >> having a main alternator failure is too unlikely to justify it ? > > EXACTLY. In an ideal world, the AUX alernator > will never be operated in 'distress'. In a practical > world, it would be unusual to have it see more than > a hand-full of hours operation over the lifetime > of the airplane. > > It gets pre-flight tested. OV events are also rare. > Adding that protection just doesn't seem justified. > Hence simple, light, inexpensive. But easily 'adjusted' > with a crowbar ovm if the builder so desires. > > >> 2) Is the intention that the Engine Bus Alternate Feed be on during >> normal flight ? If not, switching off the Master or a battery >> contactor failure would remove power from the electronic ignition. > > Yes. What is the probability of these events? > Battery contactors get fussy before they become > a failed-open device. If it DID fail open in > flight, you probably wouldn't know it . . . the > alternator would continue to run things nicely. > You might not know it was bad until you shut > down and happened to notice that everything > went dark on first motion of the master switch. > If not noticed, you'd sure pick it up during > next pre-flight. > > Inadvertent opening of the master switch > in flight might be a concern . . .which > is why I recommend ergonomic grouping of > switches to separate DC power and engine > controls from things that get routinely > switched in flight. > > https://tinyurl.com/ybaw83gd > > > But if one wished to fly with the alternate > power path to any bus closed, it's no big > deal. > > >> 3) During normal flight, the brown out booster is unpowered, but the >> power from the Clearance Delivery bus back feeds into its output. Are >> these devices typically okay with this ? > > The ones I've fiddled with so far don't > mind. Backfeed currents observed are on > the order of 3 milliamps . . . typical > of resistance in the voltage setpoint > divider. But it's certainly something > to be verified. We could add a diode > to the output path. Since the device > is loaded for only seconds per flight > cycle, the diode could probably be an > axial lead, plastic device even if > 'slightly' overloaded. I'll keep that > in the ponder-pot. > > >> 4) Is there a risk that the brown out booster could generate a >> significant overvoltage event ? Given their switching method to boost >> voltage, I think not ? > > Yeah, an open resistor in the setpoint > divider could cause it to 'regulate' at > some higher voltage. These resistors > are surface mounted and lightly stressed. > Pretty bullet-proof I suspect. > > >> 5) The green color used for the engine bus circuitry is too light a >> green, making it hard to read. I suggest a shade darker. > > Check the 'fix' . . . > > Thank's for the time/attention to this exercise! > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:17 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV B-lead Relay From: "Dan Fritz" Hi all, I'm using an IR alternator as my primary source of electrons on my Velocity. I'd like to provide overvoltage protection to include a B-Lead disconnect relay. With a 34A continuous normal system load, will an automotive cube relay rated at 70A be satisfactory in lieu of the normally used "metal can" style battery contactor? Having read tons of posts on the relative merits of internal and external regulation and pedigree in millions of automotive hours of service, I'm really just interested in the actual b-lead disconnect relay part of the architecture as shown in Z-24. :) Thanks for your help! Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495891#495891 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:30 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:30 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:33 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:19 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:20 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:38 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:02 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:36 PM PST US From: "Tom Barter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Bill, The motor is =C2=BD hp 12 VDC. This particular motor was manufactured by L eeson, Cat. No. 108074.00. Baldor and Marathon offer similar motors. This tug is used on a grass strip on a farm, and the entrance to the shed w here the plane is kept is gravel, and slightly uphill. The tug has never h ad a lack of power or traction. Tom Barter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Bill Bear Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:10 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter > wrote: Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind sn ow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control goin g forward plus reverse. Works very well on his RV-6. Tom Barter From: owner-aeroelec tric-list-server@matronics.com < owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM om Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Hello all I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of wha t specs I=99m looking at. One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for contin uous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I =99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggest ed converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure i f that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas Thanks Mike Virus-free. www.avast.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:37 PM PST US From: Bill Bear Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug Tom, What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? Bill > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of mike@vision499.com > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > > Hello all > > I=99m looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so am not sure of what specs I=99m looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is 100 yds and I=99m not sure if it will cope with that distance. A friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug From: Charlie England I can't find it now, but several years ago someone up in the snow belt posted pics of slightly modifying a small stock snow blower. Basically just unbolted the blower assy & bolted on an adapter to grab the wheel. He said it was simple to convert back to blower function for use in winter when he wasn't flying. IIRC, he bought it from his local big box store for a couple hundred dollars. On 4/18/2020 5:52 PM, Tom Barter wrote: > > Bill, > > The motor is hp 12 VDC. This particular motor was manufactured by > Leeson, Cat. No. 108074.00. Baldor and Marathon offer similar motors. > > This tug is used on a grass strip on a farm, and the entrance to the > shed where the plane is kept is gravel, and slightly uphill. The tug > has never had a lack of power or traction. > > Tom Barter > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > *On Behalf Of *Bill Bear > *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:10 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > Tom, > > What DC motor did he use to replace the gasoline motor? > > Bill > > > On Apr 18, 2020, at 07:33, Tom Barter > > wrote: > > Attached is a photo of an aircraft tug a friend built from a walk > behind snow blower with a failed engine. The transmission allows > speed control going forward plus reverse. > > Works very well on his RV-6. > > Tom Barter > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > >*On Behalf > Of*mike@vision499.com > *Sent:*Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:32 PM > *To:*aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:*AeroElectric-List: Aircraft Tug > > Hello all > > Im looking at building a 12v battery operated aircraft tug, not > a ride on just a walk with. My max aircraft weight will be about > 1800 lbs. > > I am looking for advise on what size motor I will need. There are > a few 12v motors for sale on ebay but they are not rated in hp so > am not sure of what specs Im looking at. > > One thought was to use a car starter motor but that is not rated > for continuous service but the farthest I will go with the tug is > 100 yds and Im not sure if it will cope with that distance. A > friend has also suggested converting an alternator into a motor, > not sure what that entails. Ebay has scooter motors with a speed > controller that seems ideal but not sure if that will be powerful > enough but it will be geared right down. > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.