---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/02/20: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:06 AM - Re: DB pin crimper question (dj_theis) 2. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: DB pin crimper question (Ron Walker) 3. 04:06 PM - Re: DB pin crimper question (Bill Watson) 4. 04:38 PM - Re: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired (Sebastien) 5. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: DB pin crimper question (Rick Beebe) 6. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: DB pin crimper question (Charlie England) 7. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: DB pin crimper question (Rick Beebe) 8. 07:00 PM - Re: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:41 PM - Re: Looking for help finalysing my Cozy's electrical system (Zoom2136) 10. 07:50 PM - Re: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired (Sebastien) 11. 09:13 PM - Re: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 11:26 PM - Re: Looking for help finalysing my Cozy's electrical system (johnbright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: DB pin crimper question From: "dj_theis" Is this the crimper yall speak of? https://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/ Steinair indicates for small jobs it is sufficient but for larger projects the high buck DMC is encouraged. 20 years seems to be a pretty reasonably long description of a small job and if I can do quality work with the more modest tool, Id be inclined to use the savings for other tools and toys. Dan Theis -------- Scratch building Sonex #1362 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496603#496603 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: DB pin crimper question From: Ron Walker Yep - that's it. The DMC one is awesome, but that little red one is decent for it's price. Takes a couple of squeezes to get the right "feel" and not over crimp. --Ron On 6/2/20 12:02 PM, dj_theis wrote: > > Is this the crimper yall speak of? > > https://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/ > > Steinair indicates for small jobs it is sufficient but for larger projects the high buck DMC is encouraged. > > 20 years seems to be a pretty reasonably long description of a small job and if I can do quality work with the more modest tool, Id be inclined to use the savings for other tools and toys. > > Dan Theis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DB pin crimper question From: Bill Watson I actually wrote up my experience with this tool back in 2010. I never did get a high dollar crimper and still consider this little tool to create very reliable crimps. These barrel type d-sub pins are the way to go. Bill Watson Kitlog Entry On 6/1/2020 11:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 04:43 PM 6/1/2020, you wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> Many years ago you supplied some crimpers for sale. I am still using >> mine. >> >> I seem to remember (it is nearly 20 years) that you had to make some >> >> adjustments before selling them. >> >> I see that Newark is advertising the same crimper today. >> >> I am interested to know if these crimpers need the same adjustments. >> >> If so I would like to know what it is before recommending them to a >> friend. > > Those tools are commonly sold for crimping 20AWG > pins. I discovered that they would also apply > 22AWG pins if a new positioner were crafted to > lift the smaller pin about 0.040" in the pocket. > > I sold about 150 of the 22AWG adapters to Steinair. > Unmodified tools perform as expected with > 20AWG pins. > > > Bob . . . > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:49 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired Hello Bob, if it's still available I'd like to purchase the battery analyser. On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 8:42 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > I'm retiring a West Mountain Radio battery > runner-downer test set. This venerable beast > has tested many a battery over the years and > still works fine. This device also functions > as a single-channel data acquisition system > for taking voltage samples over long periods > of time. > > It was used to produce this comparative > study of a variety of AA alkaline cells: > > https://tinyurl.com/yddfoasp > > I've upgraded to a model IV with some advanced > software features. > > Suggest you review the owner's manual which > you can obtain at: > > http://www.westmountainradio.com/pdf/CBA_Manual_V2.pdf > > Software is also available at: > > http://www.westmountainradio.com/content.php?page=wmr-downloads > > offer includes the supporting usb cable. > > First $70 offer gets it mailed to US address > via priority mail. As with all AEC offers, > 100% satisfaction guaranteed. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: DB pin crimper question From: Rick Beebe I bought the similar looking one from B&C and it works great, first squeeze every time. I bought an identical one from ebay so that I could tweak the adjustment knob for the tiny pins in high-density connectors. It was a couple dollars less expensive. --Rick On 6/2/2020 1:34 PM, Ron Walker wrote: > > Yep - that's it. > > The DMC one is awesome, but that little red one is decent for it's > price. Takes a couple of squeezes to get the right "feel" and not over > crimp. > > --Ron > > On 6/2/20 12:02 PM, dj_theis wrote: >> >> >> Is this the crimper yall speak of? >> >> https://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/ >> >> Steinair indicates for small jobs it is sufficient but for larger >> projects the high buck DMC is encouraged. >> >> 20 years seems to be a pretty reasonably long description of a >> small job and if I can do quality work with the more modest >> tool, Id be inclined to use the savings for other tools and toys. >> >> Dan Theis > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: DB pin crimper question From: Charlie England Someone mentioned earlier about an adapter that controls the amount of squeeze for #22 wire, vs #20. Perhaps there is more than one type of inexpensive dSub crimper out there, but the red handled one I have (looks identical to the pics posted earlier) uses a different insert for *high density* pins. As near as I can tell, the insert only controls how deep the pin inserts into the tool, which controls the point on the barrel that is crimped. On mine, the actual crimp action is unaffected by changing the insert. I rarely change the insert when crimping the occasional hi density pin; I just manually keep the pin from going too deep in the crimper. I've never noticed any quality difference in #20 vs #22 wire. One of my favorite scifi authors, who also wrote for Byte Magazine back when personal computers were a new thing, used to say that 'better is the enemy of good enough'. It's really hard to imagine justifying a $300+ tool for a job that a $30 tool does just fine, short of a true production environment. But that's just me.... Charlie On 6/2/2020 6:44 PM, Rick Beebe wrote: > > I bought the similar looking one from B&C and it works great, first > squeeze every time. I bought an identical one from ebay so that I > could tweak the adjustment knob for the tiny pins in high-density > connectors. It was a couple dollars less expensive. > > --Rick > > On 6/2/2020 1:34 PM, Ron Walker wrote: >> >> Yep - that's it. >> >> The DMC one is awesome, but that little red one is decent for it's >> price. Takes a couple of squeezes to get the right "feel" and not >> over crimp. >> >> --Ron >> >> On 6/2/20 12:02 PM, dj_theis wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is this the crimper yall speak of? >>> >>> https://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/ >>> >>> Steinair indicates for small jobs it is sufficient but for larger >>> projects the high buck DMC is encouraged. >>> >>> 20 years seems to be a pretty reasonably long description of a >>> small job and if I can do quality work with the more modest >>> tool, Id be inclined to use the savings for other tools and toys. >>> >>> Dan Theis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: DB pin crimper question From: Rick Beebe I looked forward to Jerry Pournelle's column every month. Even after Byte went all digital. A guru in the EV world uses a variant on that saying that I like better. "Perfect is the enemy of progress." I just finished a 6 month project re-wiring my entire panel so having the two crimpers was a time-saver. The adjustment is just how far the pin goes in. But I'm with you, I can't see the point of spending $300 on a tool like that. --RIck On 6/2/2020 8:21 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Someone mentioned earlier about an adapter that controls the amount of > squeeze for #22 wire, vs #20. Perhaps there is more than one type of > inexpensive dSub crimper out there, but the red handled one I have > (looks identical to the pics posted earlier) uses a different insert > for *high density* pins. As near as I can tell, the insert only > controls how deep the pin inserts into the tool, which controls the > point on the barrel that is crimped. On mine, the actual crimp action > is unaffected by changing the insert. I rarely change the insert when > crimping the occasional hi density pin; I just manually keep the pin > from going too deep in the crimper. I've never noticed any quality > difference in #20 vs #22 wire. > > One of my favorite scifi authors, who also wrote for Byte Magazine > back when personal computers were a new thing, used to say that > 'better is the enemy of good enough'. It's really hard to imagine > justifying a $300+ tool for a job that a $30 tool does just fine, > short of a true production environment. But that's just me.... > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:37 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired At 06:34 PM 6/2/2020, you wrote: >Hello Bob, if it's still available I'd like to purchase the battery analyser. very good sir. it's yours. I'll get a PayPal invoice off to you shortly. I think you'll enjoy the insights this tool will offer as to battery quality. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for help finalysing my Cozy's electrical system From: "Zoom2136" OK, I revisited one of my previous diagrams and went back to dividing components between EB1 and EB2 instead of controlling them through various relays. This division will allow me to shut down a subset of components by killing either EB1 (shutting off ECU 1, TOP COIL & MAIN FUEL PUMP) or EB2 (shutting off EC2, BOTTOM COIL, AUX FUEL PUMP). The injector selection and P-LEAD grounding is still controlled through a standard OFF/1/2/BOTH key switch and a single changeover relay. I've also changed the power path to the AUX FUEL PUMP. By changing the low pressure switch power source from EB2 to EB1, if the fuel pumps DPDT switch fails, the AUX FUEL PUMP will still be powered through the previously mentioned low pressure switch. That should solve the single point of failure issue of having both fuel pumps powered through one switch, -------- Eric D Cozy IIIx C-GEDZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496612#496612 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/diagram_v211_fuel__ignition__backup_oil__deb_555.png ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:41 PM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired Thank you Bob. I actually have two dozen AAs I have been meaning to sort through so this will be perfect. I don't have paypal. Could I send you a cheque? Also I cannot pick boxes up from my US shipping address at the moment, any chance you can price out USPS to Burnaby BC V3N 4K6? I might be able to set up paypal if that's the only way. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 19:06 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 06:34 PM 6/2/2020, you wrote: > > Hello Bob, if it's still available I'd like to purchase the battery > analyser. > > > very good sir. it's yours. I'll get a PayPal > invoice off to you shortly. I think you'll > enjoy the insights this tool will offer > as to battery quality. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: West Mountain Radio Battery analyzer being retired At 09:44 PM 6/2/2020, you wrote: >Thank you Bob. I actually have two dozen AAs I have been meaning to >sort through so this will be perfect. > >I don't have paypal. Could I send you a cheque? Also I cannot pick >boxes up from my US shipping address at the moment, any chance you >can price out USPS to Burnaby BC V3N 4K6? > >I might be able to set up paypal if that's the only way. You don't need to set up anything in PayPal. PayPal is my portal for processing credit/debit card payments. When you get the invoice, click the 'pay' button and enter the requested info. No further attention on your part is needed. Let me look into the postage to your Canadian address. Shoot me your address. Mail directly to nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com as opposed to posting to the List. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:24 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for help finalysing my Cozy's electrical system From: "johnbright" Re v1.04 and v2.11 and in light of my experience applying SDS EFI+I to Z-101 (one batt, dual alternator). Questions: What is the EFII System 32 Injector Power Module? Is that something EFII supplies? It shows the injectors grounded/always on which of course is not the case. Does the automatic aux pump feature come from EFII? I was thinking it comes with Bus Manager which you are not using so I was thinking you designed this feature. Is there a need for powering the injectors select relay from EB1? If EB1 is off, ECU 1 is off. Is the flyback diode built in to the relay? What injectors are used? SDS uses 14.5 ohm "saturation" injectors. IMO: Removing the injector auto fail over and coil select relays of v2.10 was a good idea. No need to buy, install, preflight, explain and remember functionality, fewer failure points. The automatic pump feature is not required. No switch SPOF, no diodes, no pressure switch. Run both pumps at low altitude (which is legacy training). If the engine stops at cruise altitude, the crew: Moves the injectors to the bku ECU. Turns the bku fuel pump on. Opens alternate air. Checks fuel. Restarts with starter or windmill. Ignition switch function is confusing because when it's on both you have both coils but injectors are on ECU 1. There's no way to fire both coils and have the injectors on ECU 2 (a good idea in any case and may be required for fine-tuning ECU 2 although EFII seems to say this is not the case). Assuming EB 1 and EB 2 are both powered: Off - boths coils disabled, injectors will fire from ECU 2 Right - bottom coil disabled, injectors will fire from ECU 1 Left - top coil disabled, injectors will fire from ECU 2 Both - both coils enabled, injectors will fire from ECU 1 Delete key switch and relay, use toggle switches for P lead 1, P lead 2, injector enable (SPDT). Or if you really want the key, use it for ignition only and replace the relay with toggle switch. Replace 2A fuses with 5A so you stock one less size. The batteries and the engine are in the back. Power EB 1 and EB 2 with relays in the spirit of FAR 23.1361. The feeds can be unprotected if short or you can use a MIDI 23 or 16 awg fuse link wire on 12 awg feeder. Notes: Injectors: I don't know the awg of the fuse links at the individual injectors or the the one in the common wire but they do nothing (24 awg melts at 29A). A short to ground anywhere will blow the fuses and you will lose all injectors. I don't know how to justify powering all injectors thru one path. Seems likely a three cylinder engine will hold altitude. The 5A fuse is too small for four injectors. The injectors might run up to 85% duty cycle in normal circumstances which means 3.4A. At 100% they will draw 4A. Better make them 10 A or even 15A. I plan to use individual 5A fuses, one per injector. This leads Z-14 to an injector bus after the diodes, un-fused short wires from EB1 and EB2 to injector bus. Z-101 shows an engine bus instead. I have a different unerstanding of switch contacts "normally open" and "normally closed" compared to you. Relay terminal 87a is normally closed, opens when the relay is energized. Edelbrock pressure switch 72213 is normally open, closes with pressure. Coilpacks: I assume the coilpacks have integral drivers and their connections to the ECUs (not shown) are logic states. It looks like EFII uses the same Subaru coils SDS uses. (EFII uses three coils in six cylinder applications, one of which fires top and bottom of cylinders 5 and 6. SDS uses two coils on six-cylinder engines, on top, one bottom.) I'm taking SDS' advice of separate fuses for each coil, each 10A. Fuel pumps: Yes, failure of the DPDT fuel pump switch in such a way as to stop both fuel pumps is highly unlikely. The switch would have to fall apart. I mention it as an SPOF but not the highest priority SPOF (the highest priority SPOF is to power the injectors independently). It looks like EFII is using the same pumps SDS uses, Walbro GSL393. I'm taking SDS' advice of separate fuses for each pump, each 15A. I normally expect the left ECU to be primary. Is that just me? The main alternator only needs 6 awg, or even the 8 awg shown in Z-101. The aux alternator only needs 10 awg and its ANL could be 35A. You could use the physically smaller MIDIs from Littlefuse instead of ANLs. You could also use fuse link wire as shown in Z-101. Wires to crossfeed contactor and starter can be 4 awg. Batteries are labeled EXT; I assume you mean ETX. Battery temp sensors are not normally used with batt in engine or passenger compartment. The aux alternator field should have a 5A CB versus a fuse because it has crowbar OV protection. In case it's instructive, my implementation of Z-101 with SDS EFI+I is one of the PDFs in the Google Drive folder linked from my signature. Also in there is a schematic of the SDS system. SDS uses relays to move the injector minus leads from pri to bak ECU drivers versus the EFII injector driver enable ECU inputs. I gather EFII connects the pri and bak drivers in parallel and disables one or the other intenal to the ECUs. -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 Single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496615#496615 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.