Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does damage start? (Charlie England)
2. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does damage start? (Ken Ryan)
3. 12:16 PM - KY97A connector (Ronald Cox)
4. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does damage start? (Charlie England)
5. 02:00 PM - Battery test (Ron Burnett)
6. 02:08 PM - Re: Premature EarthX death? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does damage start? (Ken Ryan)
8. 02:29 PM - Re: Battery test (Charlie England)
9. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Premature EarthX death? (Ken Ryan)
10. 02:52 PM - Re: Battery test (user9253)
11. 02:58 PM - SDS CPI-2 internal crowbar (David Carter)
12. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Battery test (Ron Burnett)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does |
damage start?
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:08 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Vic Syracuse has an article in this months Sport Aviation (June 2020) that
> deals with Batteries and Alternators.
>
> he says not to mistreat a battery by constantly leaving it on a non
> approved battery tender/charger between flight.
>
> Help me understand what an "approved charger" or what to avoid. Specific
> products will be good. May I assume maybe there are different chargers for
> different battery types?
>
> --------
> Brooks Cone
> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
I haven't read the article yet, but suspect he's talking about 'trickle
chargers' that can output significantly higher than desirable voltage when
the battery is fully charged and no longer loads the charger's output. This
results in overcharging and shortening of the battery's life. Even with
'smart' chargers, if you don't monitor what they're doing, they could
develop faults that would overcharge the battery.
Here's the thing. With any current-tech sealed lead acid battery, or any
lithium tech battery, their self discharge rates are so low that they will
go for months, or even years, without being connected to a charger. Unless
you only fly once a year, you're unlikely to ever need an external charge
as long as the battery is healthy enough to be safe to fly with. I've had
years in the past decade when family responsibilities kept my flying down
to about 5-10 hrs a year, and I still rarely needed to charge the battery
in my plane. My choice is to 'just (don't) do it', unless I've done
something stupid like leave a load on the battery while I'm not flying. If
it's not there, it can't hurt the battery. I'm uncomfortable with even
leaving a smart charger connected to a battery when I'm not around to check
on it occasionally, because a catastrophic fault could damage a lot more
than the charger/battery combo.
FWIW,
Charlie
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does |
damage start?
I let my fully charged EarthX sit for 12 months thinking it would be fine.
It was not. It was completely discharged and would not take a re-charge.
On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:49 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:08 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Vic Syracuse has an article in this months Sport Aviation (June 2020)
>> that deals with Batteries and Alternators.
>>
>> he says not to mistreat a battery by constantly leaving it on a non
>> approved battery tender/charger between flight.
>>
>> Help me understand what an "approved charger" or what to avoid. Specific
>> products will be good. May I assume maybe there are different chargers for
>> different battery types?
>>
>> --------
>> Brooks Cone
>> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
>
> I haven't read the article yet, but suspect he's talking about 'trickle
> chargers' that can output significantly higher than desirable voltage when
> the battery is fully charged and no longer loads the charger's output. This
> results in overcharging and shortening of the battery's life. Even with
> 'smart' chargers, if you don't monitor what they're doing, they could
> develop faults that would overcharge the battery.
>
> Here's the thing. With any current-tech sealed lead acid battery, or any
> lithium tech battery, their self discharge rates are so low that they will
> go for months, or even years, without being connected to a charger. Unless
> you only fly once a year, you're unlikely to ever need an external charge
> as long as the battery is healthy enough to be safe to fly with. I've had
> years in the past decade when family responsibilities kept my flying down
> to about 5-10 hrs a year, and I still rarely needed to charge the battery
> in my plane. My choice is to 'just (don't) do it', unless I've done
> something stupid like leave a load on the battery while I'm not flying. If
> it's not there, it can't hurt the battery. I'm uncomfortable with even
> leaving a smart charger connected to a battery when I'm not around to check
> on it occasionally, because a catastrophic fault could damage a lot more
> than the charger/battery combo.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Strangely enough, this site, which caters to old arcade game restorers, has
a compatible connector for most of the old card-edge units.
https://mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECM30
I bought one, in case I screwed up my own for a KT-76A, but noted that it
will indeed fit with a slight modification of the width to fit the opening
in the tray.
Might be worth checking out.
He also sells the pins a lot cheaper than most places, and yes, they are
gold plated.
https://mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
Best of luck
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves on the ruin of this
Country." - Sam Adams
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does |
damage start?
On 6/16/2020 2:07 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> I let my fully charged EarthX sit for 12 months thinking it would be
> fine. It was not. It was completely discharged and would not take a
> re-charge.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:49 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:08 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com
> <mailto:bcone1964@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <bcone1964@gmail.com <mailto:bcone1964@gmail.com>>
>
> Vic Syracuse has an article in this months Sport Aviation
> (June 2020) that deals with Batteries and Alternators.
>
> he says not to mistreat a battery by constantly leaving it on
> a non approved battery tender/charger between flight.
>
> Help me understand what an "approved charger" or what to
> avoid. Specific products will be good. May I assume maybe
> there are different chargers for different battery types?
>
> --------
> Brooks Cone
> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
>
> I haven't read the article yet, but suspect he's talking about
> 'trickle chargers' that can output significantly higher than
> desirable voltage when the battery is fully charged and no longer
> loads the charger's output. This results in overcharging and
> shortening of the battery's life. Even with 'smart' chargers, if
> you don't monitor what they're doing, they could develop faults
> that would overcharge the battery.
>
> Here's the thing. With any current-tech sealed lead acid battery,
> or any lithium tech battery, their self discharge rates are so low
> that they will go for months, or even years, without being
> connected to a charger. Unless you only fly once a year, you're
> unlikely to ever need an external charge as long as the battery is
> healthy enough to be safe to fly with. I've had years in the past
> decade when family responsibilities kept my flying down to about
> 5-10 hrs a year, and I still rarely needed to charge the battery
> in my plane. My choice is to 'just (don't) do it', unless I've
> done something stupid like leave a load on the battery while I'm
> not flying. If it's not there, it can't hurt the battery. I'm
> uncomfortable with even leaving a smart charger connected to a
> battery when I'm not around to check on it occasionally, because a
> catastrophic fault could damage a lot more than the
> charger/battery combo.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
Hmmm...
From the EarthX website on the page dealing with charging.
https://earthxbatteries.com/our-batteries/battery-charging
Very first sentence:
EarthX lithium batteries can sit on the shelf for up to a year without
the need to charge it due to the low self discharge rate which is about
2% a month, compared to a lead acid battery which is approximately 30%
per month.
Obviously, you could have gotten a defective battery. Or, was it stored
in freezing temps, or with a parasitic load, etc?
I'm playing Luddite on the lithium in a/c issue for now, because I'm not
convinced that enough has been *proven* about failure modes. Especially
with stuff like EX's built-in 'black box' BMS. (No, I don't accept the
FAA's word for it; they approved a bad crankshaft design from Lyc and
*multiple* bad crankshaft designs from Continental.) The company is very
active on the VAF forum, and their answers to some technical questions
made it obvious that their public-facing rep is very short on
engineering chops. One area that makes absolutely no sense is the claim
they made over on VAF that their battery (actually a battery *system*,
since the controller is built-in), can disconnect from a charging system
when there's an overvoltage event, without disconnecting from the load.
Impressive, given that there are only two terminals on the battery...
It would be an easier sell for me if I had a separate BMS that really
could block charge voltage and still supply the load, and that didn't
auto-disconnect without operator control, and oh yeah, didn't cost
roughly 10 X the price of my 'no-name' SLAs that last for 4-5 years on
average.
Anyway, SLA batteries can go a year or more without recharging, as well,
as long as they're not defective, not stored on a freezing environment,
and there's no parasitic load.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
When I test my battery with a voltmeter it is 12.5 across the main posts. If I
test the positive and move the negative lead to the firewall ground post, it is
11.7. Is this normal?
Electrically challenged.
Thanks,
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Premature EarthX death? |
At 02:07 PM 6/16/2020, you wrote:
>I let my fully charged EarthX sit for 12 months thinking it would be fine.
>It was not. It was completely discharged and would not take a re-charge.
>
Hmmm . . . according to EarthX literature, expected
self discharge rates are pretty much in line with
other LiFePo4 products.
What conditions was it stored in? Did you have
any conversation about it with EarthX?
Bob . . .
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: With Flooded cells, at what discharge does |
damage start?
I agree. Based on published specs it should have been okay. But 12 months
on the shelf in my heated shop and it was dead. I should have contacted
EarthX, but I just blamed myself and bit the bullet. Just one experience,
probably an anomaly. Hopefully.
On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:02 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 6/16/2020 2:07 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>
> I let my fully charged EarthX sit for 12 months thinking it would be fine.
> It was not. It was completely discharged and would not take a re-charge.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:49 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:08 AM bcone1381 <bcone1964@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> bcone1964@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Vic Syracuse has an article in this months Sport Aviation (June 2020)
>>> that deals with Batteries and Alternators.
>>>
>>> he says not to mistreat a battery by constantly leaving it on a non
>>> approved battery tender/charger between flight.
>>>
>>> Help me understand what an "approved charger" or what to avoid.
>>> Specific products will be good. May I assume maybe there are different
>>> chargers for different battery types?
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Brooks Cone
>>> Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
>>
>> I haven't read the article yet, but suspect he's talking about 'trickle
>> chargers' that can output significantly higher than desirable voltage when
>> the battery is fully charged and no longer loads the charger's output. This
>> results in overcharging and shortening of the battery's life. Even with
>> 'smart' chargers, if you don't monitor what they're doing, they could
>> develop faults that would overcharge the battery.
>>
>> Here's the thing. With any current-tech sealed lead acid battery, or any
>> lithium tech battery, their self discharge rates are so low that they will
>> go for months, or even years, without being connected to a charger. Unless
>> you only fly once a year, you're unlikely to ever need an external charge
>> as long as the battery is healthy enough to be safe to fly with. I've had
>> years in the past decade when family responsibilities kept my flying down
>> to about 5-10 hrs a year, and I still rarely needed to charge the battery
>> in my plane. My choice is to 'just (don't) do it', unless I've done
>> something stupid like leave a load on the battery while I'm not flying. If
>> it's not there, it can't hurt the battery. I'm uncomfortable with even
>> leaving a smart charger connected to a battery when I'm not around to check
>> on it occasionally, because a catastrophic fault could damage a lot more
>> than the charger/battery combo.
>>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
> Hmmm...
> From the EarthX website on the page dealing with charging.
> https://earthxbatteries.com/our-batteries/battery-charging
>
> Very first sentence:
> EarthX lithium batteries can sit on the shelf for up to a year without the
> need to charge it due to the low self discharge rate which is about 2% a
> month, compared to a lead acid battery which is approximately 30% per month.
>
> Obviously, you could have gotten a defective battery. Or, was it stored in
> freezing temps, or with a parasitic load, etc?
>
>
> I'm playing Luddite on the lithium in a/c issue for now, because I'm not
> convinced that enough has been *proven* about failure modes. Especially
> with stuff like EX's built-in 'black box' BMS. (No, I don't accept the
> FAA's word for it; they approved a bad crankshaft design from Lyc and
> *multiple* bad crankshaft designs from Continental.) The company is very
> active on the VAF forum, and their answers to some technical questions made
> it obvious that their public-facing rep is very short on engineering chops.
> One area that makes absolutely no sense is the claim they made over on VAF
> that their battery (actually a battery *system*, since the controller is
> built-in), can disconnect from a charging system when there's an
> overvoltage event, without disconnecting from the load. Impressive, given
> that there are only two terminals on the battery...
>
> It would be an easier sell for me if I had a separate BMS that really
> could block charge voltage and still supply the load, and that didn't
> auto-disconnect without operator control, and oh yeah, didn't cost roughly
> 10 X the price of my 'no-name' SLAs that last for 4-5 years on average.
>
> Anyway, SLA batteries can go a year or more without recharging, as well,
> as long as they're not defective, not stored on a freezing environment, and
> there's no parasitic load.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
> <#m_7123981709312888432_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery test |
On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:06 PM Ron Burnett <ronburnett@charter.net> wrote:
> ronburnett@charter.net>
>
> When I test my battery with a voltmeter it is 12.5 across the main posts.
> If I test the positive and move the negative lead to the firewall ground
> post, it is 11.7. Is this normal?
>
> Electrically challenged.
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Burnett
>
>
> I'll bet that if you measure from the firewall ground post to the battery
negative, you'll see ~0.7V. That means you have enough resistance in that
path to drop 0.7V in the path from firewall post to negative battery
terminal.
Is starter rotation sluggish?
Charlie
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Premature EarthX death? |
It was on the bench, heated shop. I should have contacted EarthX but I just
blamed myself. I am sure of the time frame because I had load tested it and
made notations, and stored those notes with the battery.
Ken
On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:16 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:07 PM 6/16/2020, you wrote:
>
> I let my fully charged EarthX sit for 12 months thinking it would be fine.
> It was not. It was completely discharged and would not take a re-charge.
>
>
> Hmmm . . . according to EarthX literature, expected
> self discharge rates are pretty much in line with
> other LiFePo4 products.
>
> What conditions was it stored in? Did you have
> any conversation about it with EarthX?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery test |
No, that is not normal. Is the master switch turned on and aircraft electrical
loads turned on during this test? I suggest taking apart all connectors
between the battery negative post and the firewall ground post. Clean them
and make sure the crimps are good. Then put it back together.
You wrote "test the positive". Is the positive voltmeter probe touching the battery
positive post and the negative voltmeter probe touching the firewall ground post?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496866#496866
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | SDS CPI-2 internal crowbar |
This thread over on VAF is interesting. I have the CPI-2 with their
recommended small backup battery in my single-alternator, single-battery
(for the main electrical system) VFR-only airplane.
I'm planning an IFR upgrade with a full suite of Garmin G3X goodies, and
want to follow the Z101 architecture.
It seems that their internal crowbar & fuse leave me stuck with their
backup battery.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=154648&page=34
--
---
David Carter
david@carter.net
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery test |
The master and no loads were on. I did have the probe on the positive terminal
and when the negative probe was moved to the bolt head on the firewall with the
forest of tabs inside the cabin, is where it dropped.7 volts.
Will do as you suggested when I can.
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 16, 2020, at 4:54 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> No, that is not normal. Is the master switch turned on and aircraft electrical
> loads turned on during this test? I suggest taking apart all connectors
> between the battery negative post and the firewall ground post. Clean them
> and make sure the crimps are good. Then put it back together.
> You wrote "test the positive". Is the positive voltmeter probe touching the
battery
> positive post and the negative voltmeter probe touching the firewall ground post?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496866#496866
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|