---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/07/20: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:29 AM - Re: Bus Bar Equivalent AWG (Hummer H2) 2. 08:34 AM - Re: Exploring a Different Way to Wire Avionics (Hummer H2) 3. 08:47 AM - Re: Exploring a Different Way to Wire Avionics (Faraon17) 4. 08:52 AM - Re: Premature EarthX death? (Faraon17) 5. 03:30 PM - Position indicator needed (rparigoris) 6. 04:03 PM - Re: Position indicator needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 04:48 PM - Re: Position indicator needed (Charlie England) 8. 04:53 PM - Re: Position indicator needed (rparigoris) 9. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Position indicator needed (Charlie England) 10. 06:50 PM - Re: Position indicator needed (rparigoris) 11. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Position indicator needed (Dick Tasker) 12. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Position indicator needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: Position indicator needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Position indicator needed (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:16 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bus Bar Equivalent AWG From: "Hummer H2" Yea these guys are good. Cuz that situation is hard, I am glad if they could help you, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497188#497188 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:16 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Exploring a Different Way to Wire Avionics From: "Hummer H2" And what will be the bonus from this? Is it necessary? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497189#497189 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Exploring a Different Way to Wire Avionics From: "Faraon17" better to do [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497190#497190 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:49 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Premature EarthX death? From: "Faraon17" I had a similar situation, I somehow succeeded, but patted the nevis :x Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497191#497191 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Position indicator needed From: "rparigoris" Hi Group. I need a display for Actuonix P version of P16. Actuator has a 5,800 ohm potentiometer, it ranges from 0 to 5,800 when running actuator in and out. We tried Actuonix display but it has a internal wiring flaw the way they designed circuit around a TI LM394 IC. They sent a replacement and it has same flaw. The way they want it wired is to supply 12 + and (-)volts to the actuator pot and the wiper is pulling voltage off it (voltage divider). Thx. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497197#497197 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Position indicator needed At 05:26 PM 7/7/2020, you wrote: > >Hi Group. I need a display for Actuonix P version of P16. Actuator >has a 5,800 ohm potentiometer, it ranges from 0 to 5,800 when >running actuator in and out. We tried Actuonix display but it has a >internal wiring flaw the way they designed circuit around a TI LM394 >IC. They sent a replacement and it has same flaw. The way they want >it wired is to supply 12 + and (-)volts to the actuator pot and the >wiper is pulling voltage off it (voltage divider). Thx. Ron P. Do you have a schematic of the acutuonix system? Does the pot in the actuator have 2 or 3 wires coming out? Is the display bar graph, analog, lcd, . . . . ? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Position indicator needed From: Charlie England On 7/7/2020 5:26 PM, rparigoris wrote: > > Hi Group. I need a display for Actuonix P version of P16. Actuator has a 5,800 ohm potentiometer, it ranges from 0 to 5,800 when running actuator in and out. We tried Actuonix display but it has a internal wiring flaw the way they designed circuit around a TI LM394 IC. They sent a replacement and it has same flaw. The way they want it wired is to supply 12 + and (-)volts to the actuator pot and the wiper is pulling voltage off it (voltage divider). Thx. Ron P. > Hi Ron, Are you sure you have that IC # correct? The 394 is a matched pair of NPN transistors in one case. Not sure why you'd need that for a position indicator. Could it be an LM3914? The 3914 is a 10 segment LED driver/level indicator (likely what you want). The 3914 will work as a voltmeter, which is what you want to display the varying voltage from the position pot. Have you measured the wiper voltage with a regular voltmeter as you move the actuator? If the voltage is 'stuck' at 12V, odds are that the ground end of the potentiometer isn't grounded. This assumes that the potentiometer is actually moving with the actuator. If you have a variable power supply, you can check the other end of the system by feeding a varying voltage into the indicator's sense input. Even a string of 1.5V batteries would give you stepped voltages to feed the indicator's input. Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:38 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob Sorry no schematic just a data sheet: https://s3.amazonaws.com/actuonix/Actuonix+Position+Indicator+Datasheet.pdf It's a 3 wire LED Bar Graph with 10 LEDs. The 5,800ohm pot gets wired as a voltage divider and the wiper goes into the red of the indicator. My build partner is a EE and say he can't see how their unit can possibly work. Here's what Wayne wrote to company: I opened up the first indicator that failed and found a burned-out trace going to the adjustment pot. Upon drawing out the circuit I found the two ends of the adjustment pot wired directly to +12 and ground, the wiper goes to pin 5 (signal in). The wiper of the pot in the actuator also goes to pin five with the ends wired to +12 and ground (Feedback potentiometer negative reference rail and Feedback potentiometer positive reference rail according to P16 instruction manual). With this configuration, it is easy to see a short circuit occurring when the actuator is near or at its limit (+12 or GND) and the adjustment pot is turned to near the opposite rail. There is no protection ie. limiting resistors, off the ends of the indicator pot to limit current in this condition. Likewise, with the indicator pot acting as the voltage divider for signal-in, I could not measure any variation in signal-in voltage even with as little as 200 ohms at the actuator pot wiper. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has gotten this to work without modification, if so, can you provide details? Would be great if we could adapt an off the shelf unit. Alsochecked with Dynon and our D10A can not take an input and display. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497199#497199 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed From: Charlie England On 7/7/2020 6:49 PM, rparigoris wrote: om> > > Hi Bob > Sorry no schematic just a data sheet: > https://s3.amazonaws.com/actuonix/Actuonix+Position+Indicator+Datasheet.p df > It's a 3 wire LED Bar Graph with 10 LEDs. > The 5,800ohm pot gets wired as a voltage divider and the wiper goes into the red of the indicator. My build partner is a EE and say he can't see how their unit can possibly work. > Here's what Wayne wrote to company: > I opened up the first indicator that failed and found a burned-out trace going to the adjustment pot. Upon drawing out the circuit I found the two ends of the adjustment pot wired directly to +12 and ground, the wiper goes to pin 5 (signal in). The wiper of the pot in the actuator also goes to p in five with the ends wired to +12 and ground (Feedback potentiometer negat ive reference rail and Feedback potentiometer positive reference rail accor ding to P16 instruction manual). With this configuration, it is easy to se e a short circuit occurring when the actuator is near or at its limit (+12 or GND) and the adjustment pot is turned to near the opposite rail. There i s no protection ie. limiting resistors, off the ends of the indicator pot t o limit current in this condition. Likewise, with the indicator pot acting as the voltage divider for signal-in, I could not measure any variation in signal-in voltage even with as little as 200 ohms at the actuator pot wipe r. I'd be inter! > ested to know if anyone else has gotten this to work without modificati on, if so, can you provide details? > > Would be great if we could adapt an off the shelf unit. Alsochecked with Dynon and our D10A can not take an input and display. > Ron P. Circuit description for the likely IC being uses is here: https://components101.com/ics/lm3914-dot-bar-display-driver From the text, below the circuit demo animation: Simply power the IC using the V+ and V- and the analog signal voltage is given to pin 5. Here we have used 9V to power the IC to monitor an analogy voltage of 0-5V.=C2- Always note that the voltage used to power t he IC (here 9V) should be at least 1.5V more that the monitoring voltage(here 5V). Note that max input voltage should always be at least 1.5V lower than supply voltage. If you search for 'LM3914 level meter', you should find dozens of hits on both ebay and Amazon, in addition to other vendors. Hope that helps, Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:35 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed From: "rparigoris" Hi Charlie Yes it's a LM3914 not LM394, dumb thumb. Here's my partner Wayne that will comment: Hi Charlie, Thanks for the feedback and I agree with you the 3914 should be operating as a voltmeter. The pot in the actuator is fine, the problem is that Actuonix didn't follow proper design (in my opinion) and wired an "adjustment" pot into the circuit alongside the 3914 whereby its directly across +12 and ground. Its wiper is in parallel with pin 5 (signal input) AND the wiper from the actuator pot. I think you can figure out what happens when one pot is adjusted towards ground and the other (like the actuator) starts heading towards +12. Full battery short circuit taking out traces on the LM3914 circuit board. Difficult to fix because critical traces are all under the DIP IC, we're just looking for a mounted 3914 without this flaw, I suspect a voltage following op amp would serve as a trim on pin 5 so as to adjust full scale when the actuator is extended. Thanks, Wayne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497202#497202 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed From: Dick Tasker Although it is a little pricey nowadays, this should work for what you want to do: http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html Otherwise, Charlie is correct about the LM3914. If your friend is an EE he should be easily able to use it to design what you want to do. That is what is in the Ray Allen indicator. I have older versions of their indicators in my plane. I traced the schematic of their unit and have it if you want a copy. They don't have the problem your friend discovered in the unit you have from Actuonix. Dick Tasker rparigoris wrote: > > Hi Bob > Sorry no schematic just a data sheet: > https://s3.amazonaws.com/actuonix/Actuonix+Position+Indicator+Datasheet.pdf > It's a 3 wire LED Bar Graph with 10 LEDs. > The 5,800ohm pot gets wired as a voltage divider and the wiper goes into the red of the indicator. My build partner is a EE and say he can't see how their unit can possibly work. > Here's what Wayne wrote to company: > I opened up the first indicator that failed and found a burned-out trace going to the adjustment pot. Upon drawing out the circuit I found the two ends of the adjustment pot wired directly to +12 and ground, the wiper goes to pin 5 (signal in). The wiper of the pot in the actuator also goes to pin five with the ends wired to +12 and ground (Feedback potentiometer negative reference rail and Feedback potentiometer positive reference rail according to P16 instruction manual). With this configuration, it is easy to see a short circuit occurring when the actuator is near or at its limit (+12 or GND) and the adjustment pot is turned to near the opposite rail. There is no protection ie. limiting resistors, off the ends of the indicator pot to limit current in this condition. Likewise, with the indicator pot acting as the voltage divider for signal-in, I could not measure any variation in signal-in voltage even with as little as 200 ohms at the actuator pot wiper. I'd be inter! > ested to know if anyone else has gotten this to work without modification, if so, can you provide details? > > Would be great if we could adapt an off the shelf unit. Alsochecked with Dynon and our D10A can not take an input and display. > Ron P. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497199#497199 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed At 06:49 PM 7/7/2020, you wrote: > >Hi Bob >Sorry no schematic just a data sheet: >https://s3.amazonaws.com/actuonix/Actuonix+Position+Indicator+Datasheet.pdf >It's a 3 wire LED Bar Graph with 10 LEDs. >The 5,800ohm pot gets wired as a voltage divider and the wiper goes >into the red of the indicator. My build partner is a EE and say he >can't see how their unit can possibly work. >Here's what Wayne wrote to company: >I opened up the first indicator that failed and found a burned-out >trace going to the adjustment pot. Upon drawing out the circuit I >found the two ends of the adjustment pot wired directly to +12 and >ground, the wiper goes to pin 5 (signal in). The wiper of the pot >in the actuator also goes to pin five with the ends wired to +12 and >ground (Feedback potentiometer negative reference rail and Feedback >potentiometer positive reference rail according to P16 instruction >manual). With this configuration, it is easy to see a short circuit >occurring when the actuator is near or at its limit (+12 or GND) and >the adjustment pot is turned to near the opposite rail. There is no >protection ie. limiting resistors, off the ends of the indicator pot >to limit current in this condition. Likewise, with the indicator >pot acting as the voltage divider for signal-in, I could not measure >any variation in signal-in voltage even with as little as 200 ohms >at the actuator pot wiper. I'd be interested to know if anyone else >has gotten this to work without modification, if so, can you provide details? > >Would be great if we could adapt an off the shelf unit. Alsochecked >with Dynon and our D10A can not take an input and display. >Ron P. That drawing is a classic example of how NOT to sell a DIY wiring job . . . further, from what I am able to glean from the writer's narrative, it seems that the products in hand have manufacturing/design defects on some level. Here's what an exemplar wiring diagram MIGHT look like for that system https://tinyurl.com/y8ywpf78 It could not be simpler but perhaps unnecessarily complicated due to defects in hardware? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed > >Would be great if we could adapt an off the shelf unit. Alsochecked >with Dynon and our D10A can not take an input and display. >Ron P. Here's one possibility but it's pretty pricey https://tinyurl.com/y7k6c5ht This is such a simple device . . . too bad the current offering is so short on info and perhaps quality. Maybe this could be an open source venture for the List. I can get housings 3D printed. Do any of you guy's feel like crafting a little board to mount the jelly-beans? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Position indicator needed From: Charlie England On 7/7/2020 8:45 PM, rparigoris wrote: > > Hi Charlie > Yes it's a LM3914 not LM394, dumb thumb. Here's my partner Wayne that will comment: > Hi Charlie, Thanks for the feedback and I agree with you the 3914 should be operating as a voltmeter. The pot in the actuator is fine, the problem is that Actuonix didn't follow proper design (in my opinion) and wired an "adjustment" pot into the circuit alongside the 3914 whereby its directly across +12 and ground. Its wiper is in parallel with pin 5 (signal input) AND the wiper from the actuator pot. I think you can figure out what happens when one pot is adjusted towards ground and the other (like the actuator) starts heading towards +12. Full battery short circuit taking out traces on the LM3914 circuit board. Difficult to fix because critical traces are all under the DIP IC, we're just looking for a mounted 3914 without this flaw, I suspect a voltage following op amp would serve as a trim on pin 5 so as to adjust full scale when the actuator is extended. > > Thanks, Wayne Agree; any trim pot should have the 'top' tied to the source, and the wiper tied to the 3914's input pin. Any chance you could just modify the circuit? Also, the pinout shown on the data sheet for your display seemed a bit weird, with signal on red and B+ on white. Can you verify that the wire colors go where the data sheet says they go? If you don't have any luck with a fix, here's one possibility as a replacement. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LM3914-10-Segment-5V-12V-Battery-Capacity-Power-Level-LED-Indicator-Display-Kit-/153106868480?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10&var=452950159370 Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.