Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY (Mahi01)
2. 05:03 AM - Cover even weak subject via assignment help services (rickypauls)
3. 11:33 AM - Rotax install (meat_ball)
4. 12:08 PM - Re: Rotax install (user9253)
5. 12:32 PM - Re: Rotax install (meat_ball)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Ken Ryan)
7. 01:16 PM - Re: Rotax install (meat_ball)
8. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Charlie England)
9. 01:46 PM - Re: Rotax install (meat_ball)
10. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Ken Ryan)
11. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Charlie England)
12. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Ken Ryan)
13. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Ken Ryan)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: Rotax install (meat_ball)
15. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Rotax install (Charlie England)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: Rotax install (meat_ball)
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| Subject: | Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY |
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| Subject: | Cover even weak subject via assignment help services |
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Hello all! I started my research some time ago and have read and read on the electrics
of this thing. I am building what I thought would be a fairly simple
airplane. It a 912 engine, dual ignition and fuel injection, but will be VFR
flying only. With the single EFIS, radios, lighting, etc. I fear the Amperage
will be too much for the stock alternator alone, so I will be supplementing
with a Rotax external alternator.
Now, I see drawing Z-16 and that is what I was going to go with, but now I am adding
quite a major component and can't seem to figure out how/where it will add
in to the scheme. I'm not sure if it should be switched or not as it will
be "always on". The Z-16 idea for the Batt switch now does not seem like it would
be appropriate in this case, but I really don't know. I was looking at the
Rotax installation of the external alternator, and it is wired completely differently
than Bob's Z-16, which confused me even more.
I feel like I am making too much of this and that it should still be "simple" to
make happen, but I have a hard time putting the written word into practice without
being hands on. Can someone help? Any advice would certainly be appreciated.
If there is another place to find a diagram similar to what I am talking
about, that would be helpful as I am a visual learner.
Thanks all!!
Rob
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external alternator.
Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system require?
What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
What kind of plane are you building?
--------
Joe Gores
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
user9253 wrote:
> The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external alternator.
> Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system require?
> What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
> What kind of plane are you building?
Thanks, Joe.
I would agree with you, except after going through the manuals for everything,
it appears the alternator won't be adequate...assuming I am doing things correctly.
It will be a stock 912 ULS beefed up power-wise to about 145 HP and will
be installed into a Just Aircraft Highlander.
Below are the components and the strobes are what puts it over the edge, even though
they are LEDs. Hopefully, this is where I am incorrect. By my excel calculation,
add all those up and you get 21.96 amps
All Advanced Flight Systems/Dynon components.
AF5600 PFD/MFD 2.8 amps
SV-COM-C25 RADIO 3 amps
SV-INTERCOM-2S INTERCOM 0.1 amps
SV-XPNDR-261 ADSB OUT 0.4 amps
SV-ADSB-472 ADSB IN 0.1 amps
SV-EMS-220 ENGINE MONITOR 0.11 amps
SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS 0.15 amps
SV-MAG-236 REMOTE MAGNETOMETER 0.15 amps
AF-BAT-3AH BACKUP BATTERY 1 amps
Video Adapter for SkyView 0.15 amps
SkyView Wi-Fi Adapter 0.1 amps
SV-GPS-2020 GPS RECEIVER/ANTENNA 0.1 amps
AeroLEDs Pulsar NSP Strobe 10 amps
Position 0.8 amps
AeroLEDs MicroSun Landing 1.5 amps
Taxi 1.5 amps
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
No electric fuel pump(s)? How are you getting 145 hp from a Rotax 912
without a turbo?
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:40 AM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net> wrote:
> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>
>
> user9253 wrote:
> > The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external
> alternator.
> > Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system require?
> > What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
> > What kind of plane are you building?
>
>
> Thanks, Joe.
>
> I would agree with you, except after going through the manuals for
> everything, it appears the alternator won't be adequate...assuming I am
> doing things correctly. It will be a stock 912 ULS beefed up power-wise to
> about 145 HP and will be installed into a Just Aircraft Highlander.
>
> Below are the components and the strobes are what puts it over the edge,
> even though they are LEDs. Hopefully, this is where I am incorrect. By my
> excel calculation, add all those up and you get 21.96 amps
>
> All Advanced Flight Systems/Dynon components.
> AF5600 PFD/MFD 2.8 amps
> SV-COM-C25 RADIO 3 amps
> SV-INTERCOM-2S INTERCOM 0.1 amps
> SV-XPNDR-261 ADSB OUT 0.4 amps
> SV-ADSB-472 ADSB IN 0.1 amps
> SV-EMS-220 ENGINE MONITOR 0.11 amps
> SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS 0.15 amps
> SV-MAG-236 REMOTE MAGNETOMETER 0.15 amps
> AF-BAT-3AH BACKUP BATTERY 1 amps
> Video Adapter for SkyView 0.15 amps
> SkyView Wi-Fi Adapter 0.1 amps
> SV-GPS-2020 GPS RECEIVER/ANTENNA 0.1 amps
> AeroLEDs Pulsar NSP Strobe 10 amps
> Position 0.8 amps
> AeroLEDs MicroSun Landing 1.5 amps
> Taxi 1.5 amps
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
kenryan wrote:
> No electric fuel pump(s)? How are you getting 145 hp from a Rotax 912 without
a turbo?
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:40 AM meat_ball wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > user9253 wrote:
> > > The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external alternator.
> > > Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system require?
> > > What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
> > > What kind of plane are you building?
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Joe.
> >
> > I would agree with you, except after going through the manuals for everything,
it appears the alternator won't be adequate...assuming I am doing things
correctly. It will be a stock 912 ULS beefed up power-wise to about 145 HP and
will be installed into a Just Aircraft Highlander.
> >
> > Below are the components and the strobes are what puts it over the edge, even
though they are LEDs. Hopefully, this is where I am incorrect. By my excel
calculation, add all those up and you get 21.96 amps
> >
> > All Advanced Flight Systems/Dynon components.
> > AF5600 PFD/MFD 2.8 amps
> > SV-COM-C25 RADIO 3 amps
> > SV-INTERCOM-2S INTERCOM 0.1 amps
> > SV-XPNDR-261 ADSB OUT 0.4 amps
> > SV-ADSB-472 ADSB IN 0.1 amps
> > SV-EMS-220 ENGINE MONITOR 0.11 amps
> > SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS 0.15 amps
> > SV-MAG-236 REMOTE MAGNETOMETER 0.15 amps
> > AF-BAT-3AH BACKUP BATTERY 1 amps
> > Video Adapter for SkyView 0.15 amps
> > SkyView Wi-Fi Adapter 0.1 amps
> > SV-GPS-2020 GPS RECEIVER/ANTENNA 0.1 amps
> > AeroLEDs Pulsar NSP Strobe 10 amps
> > Position 0.8 amps
> > AeroLEDs MicroSun Landing 1.5 amps
> > Taxi 1.5 amps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > -
> > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > WIKI -
> > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
What a great question!!! See?!? Yet another reason Im posting here. I knew someone
would critique my stupidity. Add those in and you an add more amperage still.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497513#497513
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
On 8/5/2020 2:27 PM, meat_ball wrote:
>
>
> user9253 wrote:
>> The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external alternator.
>> Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system require?
>> What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
>> What kind of plane are you building?
>
> Thanks, Joe.
>
> I would agree with you, except after going through the manuals for everything,
it appears the alternator won't be adequate...assuming I am doing things correctly.
It will be a stock 912 ULS beefed up power-wise to about 145 HP and will
be installed into a Just Aircraft Highlander.
>
> Below are the components and the strobes are what puts it over the edge, even
though they are LEDs. Hopefully, this is where I am incorrect. By my excel
calculation, add all those up and you get 21.96 amps
>
> All Advanced Flight Systems/Dynon components.
> AF5600 PFD/MFD 2.8 amps
> SV-COM-C25 RADIO 3 amps
> SV-INTERCOM-2S INTERCOM 0.1 amps
> SV-XPNDR-261 ADSB OUT 0.4 amps
> SV-ADSB-472 ADSB IN 0.1 amps
> SV-EMS-220 ENGINE MONITOR 0.11 amps
> SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS 0.15 amps
> SV-MAG-236 REMOTE MAGNETOMETER 0.15 amps
> AF-BAT-3AH BACKUP BATTERY 1 amps
> Video Adapter for SkyView 0.15 amps
> SkyView Wi-Fi Adapter 0.1 amps
> SV-GPS-2020 GPS RECEIVER/ANTENNA 0.1 amps
> AeroLEDs Pulsar NSP Strobe 10 amps
> Position 0.8 amps
> AeroLEDs MicroSun Landing 1.5 amps
> Taxi 1.5 amps
>
Ask Dynon about idle current on the radio. That looks pretty steep
except when transmitting. Same with the strobe. It might spike to 10A,
but average should be *much* lower than that.
Remember that anything that sees intermittent use needs different
treatment from constant draw devices. Short term peaks can be absorbed
by the battery, as long as there's excess *average* charging ability to
replenish the battery.
The backup battery shouldn't draw anything, once it's fully charged
(unless it has its own charging circuit that draws power all the time).
Landing/taxi shouldn't see more than 5 or 10 minutes per flight, unless
you intend to leave them on as recognition lights.
As you just realized, you need to add the fuel pump draw. If you're
running automotive style injection with fuel supplied by only an
electric pump, it will obviously be running all the time. Most injection
pumps draw between 4 & 10 amps, with 5-6 amps being the most common draw.
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
I suppose I was thinking all that was taken care of by the on board, internal generator.
Im new to Rotax do this entire thing is a learning process for me. I
appreciate everyones help!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497514#497514
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
So if it's a turbo 912 you will need to add in the two fuel pumps and the
turbo control unit. But the strobes don't draw 10 amps continuously. Since
they are intermittent, you can use a lower number for that (others might
know what actual number to use). Also, I believe the number for the comm
radio is only when transmitting, so that number might be brought down as
well. You have 1 amp for the backup battery, but that would only apply when
that battery needs charged.
There are other considerations as well. For one thing, the stock voltage
regulator that Rotax supplies (Ducati) has not proven to be particularly
robust. Many believe that it is not good to run them at full capacity
because it might lead to regulator failure.
Also, if you look at the Rotax wiring diagram for the 914 (which is
basically what you have) you will notice that the primary fuel pump is
wired directly to the internal generator, and that the bus and auxiliary
fuel pump are powered by the optional external alternator and battery. This
is a safety feature that completely separates the main fuel pump from the
auxiliary fuel pump. If, after re-assessing your loads you decide that you
can get by without the external alternator, remember that your engine
requires an electric fuel pump to keep running, and make sure that your
design does not introduce any common point of failure for the two fuel
pumps.
Ken
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:25 PM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net> wrote:
> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>
>
> kenryan wrote:
> > No electric fuel pump(s)? How are you getting 145 hp from a Rotax 912
> without a turbo?
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:40 AM meat_ball wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > user9253 wrote:
> > > > The integrated alternator should be adequate without an external
> alternator.
> > > > Have you done a load analysis? How many amps will your system
> require?
> > > > What is the exact model of your engine, 912ULS or what?
> > > > What kind of plane are you building?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, Joe.
> > >
> > > I would agree with you, except after going through the manuals for
> everything, it appears the alternator won't be adequate...assuming I am
> doing things correctly. It will be a stock 912 ULS beefed up power-wise
to
> about 145 HP and will be installed into a Just Aircraft Highlander.
> > >
> > > Below are the components and the strobes are what puts it over the
> edge, even though they are LEDs. Hopefully, this is where I am incorrect
.
> By my excel calculation, add all those up and you get 21.96 amps
> > >
> > > All Advanced Flight Systems/Dynon components.
> > > AF5600 PFD/MFD 2.8 amps
> > > SV-COM-C25 RADIO 3 amps
> > > SV-INTERCOM-2S INTERCOM 0.1 amps
> > > SV-XPNDR-261 ADSB OUT 0.4 amps
> > > SV-ADSB-472 ADSB IN 0.1 amps
> > > SV-EMS-220 ENGINE MONITOR 0.11 amps
> > > SV-ADAHRS-200 ADAHRS 0.15 amps
> > > SV-MAG-236 REMOTE MAGNETOMETER 0.15 amps
> > > AF-BAT-3AH BACKUP BATTERY 1 amps
> > > Video Adapter for SkyView 0.15 amps
> > > SkyView Wi-Fi Adapter 0.1 amps
> > > SV-GPS-2020 GPS RECEIVER/ANTENNA 0.1 amps
> > > AeroLEDs Pulsar NSP Strobe 10 amps
> > > Position 0.8 amps
> > > AeroLEDs MicroSun Landing 1.5 amps
> > > Taxi 1.5 amps
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509 (
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497509#497509)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==========
> > > -
> > > Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> > > ==========
> > > FORUMS -
> > > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > ==========
> > > WIKI -
> > > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> > > ==========
> > > b Site -
> > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > ==========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> What a great question!!! See?!? Yet another reason I=99m posting he
re. I
> knew someone would critique my stupidity. Add those in and you an add mor
e
> amperage still.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497513#497513
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
On 8/5/2020 3:41 PM, meat_ball wrote:
>
> I suppose I was thinking all that was taken care of by the on board, internal
generator. Im new to Rotax do this entire thing is a learning process for me.
I appreciate everyones help!!
Sorry; all of what was taken care of by the internal generator?
(Those of us using email delivery instead of reading the forum sometimes
lose context.)
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
If it's a Ronnie Smith turbo, ask Ronnie what the turbo control unit draws.
Probably 1 - 2 amps.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:53 PM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net> wrote:
> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>
> I suppose I was thinking all that was taken care of by the on board,
> internal generator. I=99m new to Rotax do this entire thing is a le
arning
> process for me. I appreciate everyone=99s help!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497514#497514
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
"I suppose I was thinking all that was taken care of by the on board,
internal generator."
You may be thinking of the Rotax 912iS. It has two internal generators and
indeed one of them is dedicated to powering the engine electronics.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:55 PM Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com> wrote:
> If it's a Ronnie Smith turbo, ask Ronnie what the turbo control unit
> draws. Probably 1 - 2 amps.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:53 PM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net> wrote:
>
>> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>>
>> I suppose I was thinking all that was taken care of by the on board,
>> internal generator. I=99m new to Rotax do this entire thing is a l
earning
>> process for me. I appreciate everyone=99s help!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497514#497514
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
kenryan wrote:
>
>
> Also, if you look at the Rotax wiring diagram for the 914 (which is
> basically what you have) you will notice that the primary fuel pump is
> wired directly to the internal generator, and that the bus and auxiliary
> fuel pump are powered by the optional external alternator and battery. This
> is a safety feature that completely separates the main fuel pump from the
> auxiliary fuel pump. If, after re-assessing your loads you decide that you
> can get by without the external alternator, remember that your engine
> requires an electric fuel pump to keep running, and make sure that your
> design does not introduce any common point of failure for the two fuel
> pumps.
>
> Ken
And this is where I get confused...Looking at the 914 diagram side by side with
Bobs diagram. How can I incorporate all the safeguards Bob suggests while wiring?
They are wired so differently and I have a hard time figuring out how to
join the two safely. Ive looked for previously posted wiring diagrams for inspiration/reference
but havent been able to find what I need.
As far as the strobes and other higher draw units, I was using worst case scenario
for them in case they were all on at the same instant. However, Im hearing
the battery will be able to absorb those spikes, correct? Especially since the
strobes are so instantaneous I presume?
Thanks again.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497519#497519
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net> wrote:
> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>
>
> kenryan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Also, if you look at the Rotax wiring diagram for the 914 (which is
> > basically what you have) you will notice that the primary fuel pump is
> > wired directly to the internal generator, and that the bus and auxiliar
y
> > fuel pump are powered by the optional external alternator and battery.
> This
> > is a safety feature that completely separates the main fuel pump from t
he
> > auxiliary fuel pump. If, after re-assessing your loads you decide that
> you
> > can get by without the external alternator, remember that your engine
> > requires an electric fuel pump to keep running, and make sure that your
> > design does not introduce any common point of failure for the two fuel
> > pumps.
> >
> > Ken
>
>
> And this is where I get confused...Looking at the 914 diagram side by sid
e
> with Bob=99s diagram. How can I incorporate all the safeguards Bob
suggests
> while wiring? They are wired so differently and I have a hard time figuri
ng
> out how to join the two safely. I=99ve looked for previously posted
wiring
> diagrams for inspiration/reference but haven=99t been able to find
what I
> need.
>
> As far as the strobes and other higher draw units, I was using worst case
> scenario for them in case they were all on at the same instant. However,
> I=99m hearing the battery will be able to absorb those spikes, corr
ect?
> Especially since the strobes are so instantaneous I presume?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Right. You need to look at *average* continuous load. Extreme example: th
e
transponder has 250W output. At 14V, that's almost 18 amps. But it's a
microsecond burst, so the electrical system never really 'sees' it.
If you already own the strobe, hook it up through an amp meter to a 14V
supply (clipleads to your car battery with the engine running would work if
you don't have a power supply). An old analog meter would be easier to read
with a pulsing load like that, but you might be able to get useful info
even with a digital meter, especially one that includes an analog 'bar
graph' in the display. Or just call the mfgr. they should be able to tell
you the true average current consumption of the device, if you explain that
you are doing a load analysis and not trying to size a fuse for it.
Can't help much with the wiring diagrams; I don't have the 914 drawings.
You do need to specify whether you have a version with carbs or auto style
(high pressure) fuel injection to do load calcs.
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax install |
I found that the strobes have average output at 14V of .6 amps. As far as the rest
of the stuff, Ill have to look into that when I can sit down at the computer
with all my docs in one place.
Thanks again for everyone and their input! This is a huge reason I love the aviation
community! You can come dumb as you are and people are willing to impart
their knowledge.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497522#497522
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