Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:34 AM - Valid test for voltage regulator (Devid47)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Sebastien)
4. 06:46 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Charlie England)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Ernest Christley)
6. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY (Finn Lassen)
7. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (user9253)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:48 AM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Ernest Christley)
11. 12:05 PM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Charlie England)
12. 12:21 PM - Re: Valid test for voltage regulator (Ernest Christley)
13. 12:39 PM - Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? (meat_ball)
14. 01:09 PM - ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) (Charlie England)
15. 03:53 PM - Re: ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) (Hal Benjamin)
16. 04:36 PM - Re: ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) (Charlie England)
17. 04:58 PM - Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? (user9253)
18. 04:59 PM - Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Valid test for voltage regulator |
A voltage regulator is a device that takes in an input voltage and regulates it
down to the voltage that it is rated for.
Being that a voltage regulator passes out a regulated output voltage, the only
test we must do to check a voltage regulator is a voltage test.
We check the voltage input into the voltage regulator and the voltage output from
the regulator.
If we read at the input pin the voltage which we feed into the regulator and read
at the output pin the output voltage which the regulator is rated for, then
we know that the voltage regulator is good. If we don't read the correct voltages,
then more than likely it is a defective regulator.
So we'll now go through specifically how to test a voltage regulator.
Before we get into how to read the voltages with a multimeter, first we'll go over
the pinout of a voltage regulator, so that you'll know which pins to read
voltages from.
As an example, we'll use the popular voltage regulator, the LM7805. Below is the
pinout of the LM7805 voltage regulator:
--------
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497723#497723
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
At 04:31 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>
>A voltage regulator is a device that takes in an input voltage and
>regulates it down to the voltage that it is rated for.
>
>Being that a voltage regulator passes out a regulated output
>voltage, the only test we must do to check a voltage regulator is a
>voltage test.
The 'voltage regulator' under discussion is
a rectifier/regulator assembly used in
conjunction with a permanent magnet
alternator. Exemplar schematic attached.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
Bob you've been had by a spammer. Ignore.
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 07:36 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:31 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> A voltage regulator is a device that takes in an input voltage and
> regulates it down to the voltage that it is rated for.
>
> Being that a voltage regulator passes out a regulated output voltage, the
> only test we must do to check a voltage regulator is a voltage test.
>
>
> The 'voltage regulator' under discussion is
> a rectifier/regulator assembly used in
> conjunction with a permanent magnet
> alternator. Exemplar schematic attached.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
Hi Bob,
I'm pretty sure that guy is a spammer. I started to respond, then checked
my history & found only that one post from him, which has a link to who
knows what.
Charlie
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:36 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:31 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> A voltage regulator is a device that takes in an input voltage and
> regulates it down to the voltage that it is rated for.
>
> Being that a voltage regulator passes out a regulated output voltage, the
> only test we must do to check a voltage regulator is a voltage test.
>
>
> The 'voltage regulator' under discussion is
> a rectifier/regulator assembly used in
> conjunction with a permanent magnet
> alternator. Exemplar schematic attached.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
The email is probably spam, but I still found the diagram useful.I got the
test rig set up last night and ran it with no more load than the meter on
it.=C2- My lathe has a VFD, so I can read the RPM from a digital readout.
=C2- What I got was:
457rpm -> 14.6V623rpm -> 14.64V897rpm -> 15.09V991rpm -> 15.7V
I'll hook a battery or a couple lights to it later today to see if the regu
lator needs a significant current flowing to regulate properly, but it does
n't look to me like this regulator is regulating very well.
On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 9:47:13 AM EDT, Charlie England <ceenglan
d7@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bob,
I'm pretty sure that guy is a spammer. I started to respond, then checked m
y history & found only that one post from him, which has a link to who know
s what.
Charlie
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 8:36 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
At 04:31 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "Devid47" <lynchris299@gmail.com>
A voltage regulator is a device that takes in an input voltage andregulates
it down to the voltage that it is rated for.
Being that a voltage regulator passes out a regulated output voltage, theon
ly test we must do to check a voltage regulator is a voltagetest.
=C2- The 'voltage regulator' under discussion is
=C2- a rectifier/regulator assembly used in
=C2- conjunction with a permanent magnet
=C2- alternator. Exemplar schematic attached.=C2-
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY |
Using the nanoVNA, I played with an old homemade comm antenna, 1/4
sticking up, three "ground plane" wires 120 degrees apart and bent downward.
It was amazing to me how the impedance and thus SWR changed with bending
the ground plane wires up or down a tiny bit.
So, it's not just about adding ground plane wires, but also about how
they slope down.
Of course, I don't know what impedance-matching network may be hiding in
the RAMI antenna..
Finn
On 8/12/2020 11:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> The feedpoint impedance of an un-compensated
> 1/4 wave vertical is on the order of 30 ohms
> at resonance . . . so the BEST expected SWR
> over the range of interest would be about what
> you're seeing 1.20:1
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: IS a COM ANTENNA GROUND PLANE NECESSARY |
At 09:21 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>
>Using the nanoVNA, I played with an old homemade comm antenna,
>1/4 sticking up, three "ground plane" wires 120 degrees apart and
>bent downward.
>
>It was amazing to me how the impedance and thus SWR changed with bending
>the ground plane wires up or down a tiny bit.
Yes!
>So, it's not just about adding ground plane wires, but also about
>how they slope down.
Uhhh . . . yeah . . . mostly about the slope.
Imagine if you will, a 1/4 wave vertical with ONE
ground plane 'radial' except instead of radiating
out from the base, it is oriented straight down.
It's easy you see that you now have a 1/2 wave
dipole with an expected center point impedance
on the order of 70 ohms . . . not exactly a 1:1
but not terribly off either.
Going to the other extreme, consider the 1/4 wave
radiator in the middle of an solid, 1/4 wave radius
ground plane. Now you've got a feed point impedance on the order
of 35 ohms. Again, not 1:1 for 50 ohm coax but
not 'bad'.
Now, begin to deform the ground plane down from
the center in a cone shape. The feed point impedance
begins to rise. If taken to the limit of
deformation (90 degrees), you're now back
to a 1/2 wave dipole.
It follows that you can 'tune' swr by picking
a droop angle that optimizes your goal of
achieving a 50 ohm feed point.
A good example for designing this antenna
can be found here:
https://tinyurl.com/ybxfxuup
Try plugging in various values for center
frequency and velocity factor. Did you know
that a radiator in free space has a velocity
factor? An antenna with zero diameter wire
has a velocity factor of 1.0
Obviously, zero diameter wire doesn't exist
so fine . . . we'll make it a stainless steel
rod of some structurally adequate size.
Figure 13-6 (attached) of the 'Connection speaks to
this phenomenon. The calculator linked above
takes this physics into account.
In practice, few folks concern themselves
with VF . . . they just trim for desired
results with an SWR/VNA meter.
Note also that the calculator adds a
'lengthening factor' of 0.28 to the
radials. This will have the effect of
making them slightly inductive at the
frequency of interest.
Bottom line is that with judicious tweaking
of the lengths and angles, one can handily
achieve a 1.0:1 match at the antenna feed
point.
Adding more radials up to and including
achievement of a solid conical plane will
have some effect but not nearly so profound
as observed with the first four radials plus some
judicious droop.
Unfortunately we don't have all
those options on airplanes . . . but in
the final analysis, pretty-good is good-enough.
Isn't that VNA a marvelous tool?
>Of course, I don't know what impedance-matching network may be
>hiding in the RAMI antenna..
Some years ago, a reader sent me a schematic
of a 2-component, LC network that was thought
to be included in the base of a contemporary
VHF Comm antenna . . . I think it was a RAMI.
Couldn't put eyes on it at the moment.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
Yes, Devid47 is a spammer.
The link at the bottom of his post indicates that he is from Sri Lanka.
His post was plagiarized from this website:
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/How-to-test-a-voltage-regulator
You can go there to read the whole article about testing the LM7805 if interested.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497732#497732
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
At 09:20 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>The email is probably spam, but I still found the diagram useful.
>I got the test rig set up last night and ran it with no more load
>than the meter on it. My lathe has a VFD, so I can read the RPM
>from a digital readout. What I got was:
>
>457rpm -> 14.6V
>623rpm -> 14.64V
>897rpm -> 15.09V
>991rpm -> 15.7V
>
>I'll hook a battery or a couple lights to it later today to see if
>the regulator needs a significant current flowing to regulate
>properly, but it doesn't look to me like this regulator is
>regulating very well.
Contemporary PM R/R needs a load to be optimally accurate/stable.
How do the rpms in your test data relate to engine rpms in
operation?
It will settle down with a load.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
The engine idles around 650.=C2- Max RPM is 3,000.
On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 1:43:26 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 09:20 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
The email is probably spam, butI still found the diagram useful.
I got the test rig set up last night and ran it with no more load thanthe m
eter on it.=C2- My lathe has a VFD, so I can read the RPM from adigital r
eadout.=C2- What I got was:
457rpm -> 14.6V
623rpm -> 14.64V
897rpm -> 15.09V
991rpm -> 15.7V
I'll hook a battery or a couple lights to it later today to see if theregul
ator needs a significant current flowing to regulate properly, butit doesn'
t look to me like this regulator is regulating verywell.
=C2- Contemporary PM R/R needs a load to be optimallyaccurate/stable.
=C2- How do the rpms in your test data relate to engine rpms in
=C2- operation?
=C2- It will settle down with a load.
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
Is the alternator concentric on the crank (VW style), or belt driven? If
belt, what's the *alternator* rpm range?
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:55 PM Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> wrote:
> The engine idles around 650. Max RPM is 3,000.
>
> On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 1:43:26 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>
> At 09:20 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
>
> The email is probably spam, but I still found the diagram useful.
> I got the test rig set up last night and ran it with no more load than the
> meter on it. My lathe has a VFD, so I can read the RPM from a digital
> readout. What I got was:
>
> 457rpm -> 14.6V
> 623rpm -> 14.64V
> 897rpm -> 15.09V
> 991rpm -> 15.7V
>
> I'll hook a battery or a couple lights to it later today to see if the
> regulator needs a significant current flowing to regulate properly, but it
> doesn't look to me like this regulator is regulating very well.
>
>
> Contemporary PM R/R needs a load to be optimally accurate/stable.
> How do the rpms in your test data relate to engine rpms in
> operation?
>
> It will settle down with a load.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Valid test for voltage regulator |
It's concentric. Bolts up in place of the harmonic dampener on a Corvair.
On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 3:05:31 PM EDT, Charlie England <ceenglan
d7@gmail.com> wrote:
Is the alternator concentric on the crank (VW style), or belt driven? If b
elt, what's the *alternator* rpm range?
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:55 PM Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> wrote
:
The engine idles around 650.=C2- Max RPM is 3,000.
On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 1:43:26 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 09:20 AM 8/13/2020, you wrote:
The email is probably spam, butI still found the diagram useful.
I got the test rig set up last night and ran it with no more load thanthe m
eter on it.=C2- My lathe has a VFD, so I can read the RPM from adigital r
eadout.=C2- What I got was:
457rpm -> 14.6V
623rpm -> 14.64V
897rpm -> 15.09V
991rpm -> 15.7V
I'll hook a battery or a couple lights to it later today to see if theregul
ator needs a significant current flowing to regulate properly, butit doesn'
t look to me like this regulator is regulating verywell.
=C2- Contemporary PM R/R needs a load to be optimallyaccurate/stable.
=C2- How do the rpms in your test data relate to engine rpms in
=C2- operation?
=C2- It will settle down with a load.
=C2- Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? |
user9253 wrote:
> Going with one of Bob's proven wiring diagrams is a good decision.
> Try ExpressPCB software for drawing wiring diagrams.
> https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb-classic-pcb-layout-software/#wow-modal-id-1
> It is just about the easiest CAD program to learn.
> It is a two part program. Express.sch is for drawing a schematic.
> Express.pcb is for designing printed circuit boards.
I've got it mostly figured out using ExpressPCB. Thanks for the suggestion, Joe!!
I have one question concerning the external alternator. It has the attached photo
in the manual and it says "any hot lead with key switched on." Since I won't
have a key, where should I attach this lead? By the way, i've updated my
first post with the electronically produced schematic so hopefully it will be
easier to read. You can see the black lead of the voltage regulator sitting in
nowhere land toward the bottom.
Thanks all.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497741#497741
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/532dce49_2ab2_4844_8aa9_c5b9f57bdaa4png_180.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) |
During my Condition Inspection of my (purchased) RV-6, I prepared to check
the ELT batteries for date/operation. The builder had mounted the ELT
behind the passenger seat in the baggage compartment, with the antenna
directly above just inside the back glass. Not ideal for packing luggage,
but certainly easy access for service (I thought).
I leaned over the seats and flipped open the two latches, and picked up the
ELT to disconnect the coax & 'phone wire' that runs to the panel mounted
control. No issue with the coax. But the phone wire is *hard wired* into
the top of the ELT by the mfgr. To compound matters, the builder, in his
infinite wisdom, drilled a hole in the baggage floor & snaked the cable
through corrugated tubing that disappears into the inaccessible space under
the baggage compartment. So now the 'portable' ELT, complete with its
attached portable whip, is portable to a distance of about 2" above the
floor of the baggage compartment.
I get it that not all builders have good sense, and all of us have 'bad
decision days', but how could a mfgr do something this stupid, and I know
it's pointless to ask, but how could the FAA be so stupid as to certify the
thing?
Yes, I realize that the builder could have left a 2-foot service loop
hanging out with the splice in the baggage compartment, but IT'S AN
E(mergency)LT. In an actual emergency, finding a latch on the case would be
a lot simpler and quicker than finding the splice point in the cable.
Does filing a Service Difficulty Report on a 20 year old product make any
sense?
OK, rant mode off; back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Charlie
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) |
Hi Charlie,
Sounds like it=99s time to cut the cord, buy a couple of crimp on phon
e connectors and be done with it. I too find things that could have been don
e differently to make maintenance easier, but then again again I built it.
Hal Benjamin
RV4, Flying
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 13, 2020, at 4:20 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> During my Condition Inspection of my (purchased) RV-6, I prepared to check
the ELT batteries for date/operation. The builder had mounted the ELT behin
d the passenger seat in the baggage compartment, with the antenna directly a
bove just inside the back glass. Not ideal for packing luggage, but certainl
y easy access for service (I thought).
>
> I leaned over the seats and flipped open the two latches, and picked up th
e ELT to disconnect the coax & 'phone wire' that runs to the panel mounted c
ontrol. No issue with the coax. But the phone wire is *hard wired* into the t
op of the ELT by the mfgr. To compound matters, the builder, in his infinite
wisdom, drilled a hole in the baggage floor & snaked the cable through corr
ugated tubing that disappears into the inaccessible space under the baggage c
ompartment. So now the 'portable' ELT, complete with its attached portable w
hip, is portable to a distance of about 2" above the floor of the baggage co
mpartment.
>
> I get it that not all builders have good sense, and all of us have 'bad de
cision days', but how could a mfgr do something this stupid, and I know it's
pointless to ask, but how could the FAA be so stupid as to certify the thin
g?
>
> Yes, I realize that the builder could have left a 2-foot service loop hang
ing out with the splice in the baggage compartment, but IT'S AN E(mergency)L
T. In an actual emergency, finding a latch on the case would be a lot simple
r and quicker than finding the splice point in the cable.
>
> Does filing a Service Difficulty Report on a 20 year old product make any s
ense?
>
> OK, rant mode off; back to your regularly scheduled programming.
>
> Charlie
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ACK E-01 ELT SDR (warning: Rant mode ON) |
I hear you, but there is zero slack. I was able to pivot it out of its
holder, and rotate it enough to get to all 4 of the battery screws, but
I seriously doubt that I'd have enough left on each end of the cut to
strip & crimp both ends.
As the subject line says, this is more of a rant than a call for help.
:-) I'm impressed almost daily by 'aircraft quality'.
The next time I need to pull up the seat pans, I'll pull some slack down
from the panel and back to ELT location.
Charlie
On 8/13/2020 5:48 PM, Hal Benjamin wrote:
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Sounds like its time to cut the cord, buy a couple of crimp on phone
> connectors and be done with it. I too find things that could have been
> done differently to make maintenance easier, but then again again I
> built it.
>
> Hal Benjamin
> RV4, Flying
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 4:20 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> During my Condition Inspection of my (purchased) RV-6, I prepared to
>> check the ELT batteries for date/operation. The builder had mounted
>> the ELT behind the passenger seat in the baggage compartment, with
>> the antenna directlyabove just inside the back glass. Not ideal for
>> packing luggage, but certainly easy access for service (I thought).
>>
>> I leaned over the seats and flipped open the two latches, and picked
>> up the ELT to disconnect the coax & 'phone wire' that runs to the
>> panel mounted control. No issue with the coax. But the phone wire is
>> *hard wired* into the top of the ELT by the mfgr. To compound
>> matters, the builder, in his infinitewisdom, drilled a hole in the
>> baggage floor & snaked the cable through corrugatedtubing that
>> disappears into the inaccessible space under the baggage compartment.
>> So now the 'portable' ELT, complete with its attached portable whip,
>> is portable to a distance of about 2" above the floor of the baggage
>> compartment.
>>
>> I get it that not all builders have good sense, and all of us have
>> 'bad decision days', but how could a mfgr do something this stupid,
>> and I know it's pointless to ask, but how could the FAA be so stupid
>> as to certify the thing?
>>
>> Yes, I realize that the builder could have left a 2-foot service loop
>> hanging out with the splice in the baggage compartment, but IT'S AN
>> E(mergency)LT. In an actual emergency, finding a latch on the case
>> would be a lot simpler and quicker than finding the splice point in
>> the cable.
>>
>> Does filing a Service Difficulty Report on a 20 year old product make
>> any sense?
>>
>> OK, rant mode off; back to your regularly scheduled programming.
>>
>> Charlie
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? |
The black wire both enables the regulator output and provides voltage sensing.
Connect it to the main power bus through both a 3 amp fuse and a switch.
The switch is required to shut off the regulator in case of smoke or fire.
Shutting off the battery contactor will not shut down an alternator that is already
running.
Mount the regulator to an aluminum surface with heat conductive paste.
Provide forced air cooling if possible.
If the regulator ever fails, consider buying part number AM101406,or
MIA881279, or JDR1406 on eBay for as little as $17.
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Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497749#497749
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Z-16 with a sprinkling of Z-12...help? |
Ground wires should be the same size as the positive wire. Use 12 AWG.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497750#497750
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