Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:26 AM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:19 AM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Ron Springer)
3. 09:52 AM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Charlie England)
4. 10:13 AM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Ron Springer)
5. 10:53 AM - Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (rparigoris)
6. 02:43 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 03:14 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Charlie England)
9. 03:16 PM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (user9253)
10. 03:16 PM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground?(PS) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 03:30 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:32 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Ron Springer)
13. 04:38 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Ron Springer)
14. 05:15 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:09 PM - Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator (Ken Ryan)
16. 07:42 PM - Anti corrosion on connections? (rparigoris)
17. 08:07 PM - Re: Anti corrosion on connections? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
>=C2 Is this a new condition or has always
>=C2 existed?
>
>I thought it was a new condition. My plane has
>been down for quite a while during an engine
>rebuild. I am trying to fly it and monitor
>temperatures on my new engine but all the engine
>data is fluctuating=C2 wildly. I looked back at
>some old data and I could see the same symptoms
>occasionally, but it was more mild and very
>infrequent. I just never noticed it. Now, it is
>happening nearly continuously and the variations
>are far more extreme. The EFIS has three other
>issues as well. It has lost the GPS signal, it
>always stops recording data to the USB stick
>once the temperature oscillations start, and it
>only sometimes displays the ADSB-in data that I
>am feeding it. One thing in common with all of
>these is that they are connected to serial ports
>on the EFIS. Either four things just
>simultaneously failed or there is a problem with
>the EFIS serial ports. That's my current theory.
Serial data are pretty robust with respect
to noises . . . I'm pondering the possibility
of a grounding issue for the analog inputs.
Analog temperature data signals, whether thermocouple
or RTC are small and the fact that the whole
suite of measurements are flaky suggests
something common to signal conditioning.
>=C2 Unhook the alternator and do a battery only
>=C2 flight.
>
>Yes, that is exactly what I am planning for the
>next flight. Additionally, the EIS is remotely
>mounted but it has a display. I intend to fly
>with a GoPro aimed at it to see if the CHT
>values that it displays match those on the EFIS.
>If there is simply a communication problem or
>some source of noise in the EFIS, then the EIS
>should be displaying the correct CHT values and not wildly fluctuating.
Is there a downloadable installation
manual for your EFIS?
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroel
ectric.com> wrote:
>
> Serial data are pretty robust with respect
> to noises . . . I'm pondering the possibility
> of a grounding issue for the analog inputs.
> Analog temperature data signals, whether thermocouple
> or RTC are small and the fact that the whole
> suite of measurements are flaky suggests
> something common to signal conditioning.
The interesting thing is that the bad values apply across all channels, incl
uding ones that aren=99t even hooked up, like cylinders 5 and 6. Anoth
er one is coolant temperature. It always should read 59 deg for no signal si
nce it is not hooked up. My data recording at 5 Hz captured a single inciden
ce of -32000 degF and then back to 59 until recording stopped. Values in the
-32000 range have shown up on CHT channels and others as well.
The manufacturer is mystified. I am collecting more data today, checking all
ground connections, and then will probably ship it to them for testing tomo
rrow.
Ron
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 11:25 AM Ron Springer <ron228rj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Serial data are pretty robust with respect
> to noises . . . I'm pondering the possibility
> of a grounding issue for the analog inputs.
> Analog temperature data signals, whether thermocouple
> or RTC are small and the fact that the whole
> suite of measurements are flaky suggests
> something common to signal conditioning.
>
>
> The interesting thing is that the bad values apply across all channels,
> including ones that aren=99t even hooked up, like cylinders 5 and 6
. Another
> one is coolant temperature. It always should read 59 deg for no signal
> since it is not hooked up. My data recording at 5 Hz captured a single
> incidence of -32000 degF and then back to 59 until recording stopped.
> Values in the -32000 range have shown up on CHT channels and others as
> well.
>
> The manufacturer is mystified. I am collecting more data today, checking
> all ground connections, and then will probably ship it to them for testin
g
> tomorrow.
>
> Ron
>
I hate saying this out loud, but have you tried whacking the case to see if
you can stimulate the glitches? IIRC, you said it only happens in flight,
right? Vibration can generate all kinds of weird symptoms in electronics if
there are intermittent connections involved.
Charlie
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
No problem saying it. That is worth trying!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 1:00 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 11:25 AM Ron Springer <ron228rj@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Serial data are pretty robust with respect
>>> to noises . . . I'm pondering the possibility
>>> of a grounding issue for the analog inputs.
>>> Analog temperature data signals, whether thermocouple
>>> or RTC are small and the fact that the whole
>>> suite of measurements are flaky suggests
>>> something common to signal conditioning.
>>
>> The interesting thing is that the bad values apply across all channels, i
ncluding ones that aren=99t even hooked up, like cylinders 5 and 6. An
other one is coolant temperature. It always should read 59 deg for no signal
since it is not hooked up. My data recording at 5 Hz captured a single inci
dence of -32000 degF and then back to 59 until recording stopped. Values in t
he -32000 range have shown up on CHT channels and others as well.
>>
>> The manufacturer is mystified. I am collecting more data today, checking a
ll ground connections, and then will probably ship it to them for testing to
morrow.
>>
>> Ron
>
> I hate saying this out loud, but have you tried whacking the case to see i
f you can stimulate the glitches? IIRC, you said it only happens in flight, r
ight? Vibration can generate all kinds of weird symptoms in electronics if t
here are intermittent connections involved.
> Charlie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
Hi Group I have a Rotax 914 with heavy duty starter. There is a casting at the
rear of the starter with an untapped 1/4" hole perhaps 1/2" thick. Is there any
reason why I couldn't use this as my only engine ground? I can't use the engine
lift point as ground because the wire will interfere with cooling air baffle
air flow down and around the B&C SD20S alternator. There is a tapped 6mm hole
on the 2 aft cylinders but the starter is closer to the firewall ground pass
through. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498003#498003
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
>
>I hate saying this out loud, but have you tried whacking the case to
>see if you can stimulate the glitches? IIRC, you said it only
>happens in flight, right? Vibration can generate all kinds of weird
>symptoms in electronics if there are intermittent connections involved.
>Charlie
You're telling your age my friend . . . I'll bet you
had real world experience with vacuum tube electronics!
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
At 12:45 PM 8/26/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hi Group I have a Rotax 914 with heavy duty starter. There is a
>casting at the rear of the starter with an untapped 1/4" hole
>perhaps 1/2" thick. Is there any reason why I couldn't use this as
>my only engine ground?
Is this a thru hole . . . can you use a bolt and nut
to effect the mash-up?
Got a nice flat surface to mate up with your
terminal?
Get the terminal flat compressed to the
crankcase with a stout (grade 8) bolt
having a washer under the head of the bolt
against the other side of the terminal.
I'm presuming there's a nut on the other
side of the casting.
Torque it up until you're worried for the
future of your 1/4" ratchet and call it
good.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 4:50 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> I hate saying this out loud, but have you tried whacking the case to see
> if you can stimulate the glitches? IIRC, you said it only happens in
> flight, right? Vibration can generate all kinds of weird symptoms in
> electronics if there are intermittent connections involved.
> Charlie
>
>
> You're telling your age my friend . . . I'll bet you
> had real world experience with vacuum tube electronics!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Uh...yep. Tube-top-thump was an essential troubleshooting tool; even the
musicians knew that one. Still have a scar on my hand somewhere from
touching the wrong (750V) terminal in the guts of a Marshall guitar amp I
was repairing, some time in the mid 1970s. I've forgotten a lot of stuff;
not that smell....
But I've even seen solid state components that were shock-sensitive when
they started going south.
Charlie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
Actually that ground lug on the starter is the ideal location for the engine ground
cable.
Current will not have to pass through the engine block to crank the engine.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498010#498010
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground?(PS) |
Torque it up until you're worried for the
future of your 1/4" ratchet and call it
good.
P.S. as a point of reference, the terminals on
a PC680 battery are 6 mm female threads in brass . . .
Emacs!
Your primary concern at this junction
is integrity under engine vibration and
temperature variations. Your hardware
will be steel and torqued to a lot
higher forces/pressures than the battery . . .
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
>
>Uh...yep. Tube-top-thump was an essential
>troubleshooting tool; even the musicians knew
>that one. Still have a scar on my hand somewhere
>from touching the wrong (750V) terminal in the
>guts of a Marshall guitar amp I was repairing,
>some time in the mid 1970s. I've forgotten a lot of stuff; not that
smell....=C2
Speaking of smells . . . the youngster's look
at you incredulously when you assert that sticking
your nose into the cabinet after removing the back
was a powerful diagnostic tool.
Power transformers, electrolytic caps, paper
caps, plastic caps, resistors, flyback transformers,
resistors, etc. all had their own characteristic
odors when 'smoked'. Staring with overt symptoms
one could be halfway to a diagnosis by simply sniffing
as you pulled the back off the set.
Not so much these days . . .
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
Just did a test flight and shot some video of the EIS to compare to the EFIS
. I haven=99t even looked at it yet because I did something else for t
he first time. I shut off the magneto and everything got perfectly quiet on t
he EFIS, along with the noise that seems to be getting louder in my headset o
n each flight!
I never really focused on the magneto because it was brand new. But, let me t
ell you about the old mag. I hand prop my VariEze on the magneto only and su
ddenly I couldn=99t get it started any more. I suspected the mag was w
eak. I opened it to adjust the egap and the slot wasn=99t big enough t
o adjust it. Then I dug through the original builder=99s paperwork and
learned it had 1100 hours on it and probably was never serviced. So, I just
bought a new one. It would have been more obvious if I had flown the new ma
g immediately but I installed it and then decided to tear down the engine an
d do a bunch of other mods.
I am guessing that if the wires are the problem, installing a new, much stro
nger magneto can make things a lot worse?
Ron
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>>
>>
>> Uh...yep. Tube-top-thump was an essential troubleshooting tool; even the m
usicians knew that one. Still have a scar on my hand somewhere from touching
the wrong (750V) terminal in the guts of a Marshall guitar amp I was repair
ing, some time in the mid 1970s. I've forgotten a lot of stuff; not that sme
ll....=C3=82
>
>
> Speaking of smells . . . the youngster's look
> at you incredulously when you assert that sticking
> your nose into the cabinet after removing the back
> was a powerful diagnostic tool.
>
> Power transformers, electrolytic caps, paper
> caps, plastic caps, resistors, flyback transformers,
> resistors, etc. all had their own characteristic
> odors when 'smoked'. Staring with overt symptoms
> one could be halfway to a diagnosis by simply sniffing
> as you pulled the back off the set.
>
> Not so much these days . . .
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
I am still not sure why it only seems to occur in the air. More vibration? I
t shakes pretty good at full throttle on the ground too. The ground runs hav
e primarily been done the VariEze nose on the ground. But, the plane is nonc
onductive. Could the proximity of the ground have an effect?
Ron
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 7:28 PM, Ron Springer <ron228rj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBJust did a test flight and shot some video of the EIS to compare t
o the EFIS. I haven=99t even looked at it yet because I did something e
lse for the first time. I shut off the magneto and everything got perfectly q
uiet on the EFIS, along with the noise that seems to be getting louder in my
headset on each flight!
>
> I never really focused on the magneto because it was brand new. But, let m
e tell you about the old mag. I hand prop my VariEze on the magneto only and
suddenly I couldn=99t get it started any more. I suspected the mag wa
s weak. I opened it to adjust the egap and the slot wasn=99t big enoug
h to adjust it. Then I dug through the original builder=99s paperwork a
nd learned it had 1100 hours on it and probably was never serviced. So, I ju
st bought a new one. It would have been more obvious if I had flown the new m
ag immediately but I installed it and then decided to tear down the engine a
nd do a bunch of other mods.
>
> I am guessing that if the wires are the problem, installing a new, much st
ronger magneto can make things a lot worse?
>
> Ron
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Aug 26, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>>>
>>>
>>> Uh...yep. Tube-top-thump was an essential troubleshooting tool; even the
musicians knew that one. Still have a scar on my hand somewhere from touchi
ng the wrong (750V) terminal in the guts of a Marshall guitar amp I was repa
iring, some time in the mid 1970s. I've forgotten a lot of stuff; not that s
mell....=C3=82
>>
>>
>> Speaking of smells . . . the youngster's look
>> at you incredulously when you assert that sticking
>> your nose into the cabinet after removing the back
>> was a powerful diagnostic tool.
>>
>> Power transformers, electrolytic caps, paper
>> caps, plastic caps, resistors, flyback transformers,
>> resistors, etc. all had their own characteristic
>> odors when 'smoked'. Staring with overt symptoms
>> one could be halfway to a diagnosis by simply sniffing
>> as you pulled the back off the set.
>>
>> Not so much these days . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
At 06:28 PM 8/26/2020, you wrote:
>Just did a test flight and shot some video of
>the EIS to compare to the EFIS. I haven=99t even
>looked at it yet because I did something else
>for the first time. I shut off the magneto and
>everything got perfectly quiet on the EFIS,
>along with the noise that seems to be getting
>louder in my headset on each flight!
Aha! One more flight test:
Leave the mag wire totally unhooked at
the engine end. Of course this leaves
you an always-hot mag but the p-lead
effects are now out of the diagnostic
loop.
If the effect goes away, you're looking
at p-lead; if it stays you're looking
at plug wires.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-8 Alternator/Regulator |
I had a tv that would periodically just lose the picture and a very hard
slap to the left side of the case would instantly bring it back. Sometimes
it took two very hard slaps!
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:50 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> I hate saying this out loud, but have you tried whacking the case to see
> if you can stimulate the glitches? IIRC, you said it only happens in
> flight, right? Vibration can generate all kinds of weird symptoms in
> electronics if there are intermittent connections involved.
> Charlie
>
>
> You're telling your age my friend . . . I'll bet you
> had real world experience with vacuum tube electronics!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Anti corrosion on connections? |
Hi Group, thank you for answer on using starter for ground on my Rotax 914. The
answer is yes I can put an An-4 nut on the other side of bolt.
Question: Should I use any anti corrosion goop on my starter ground joint? Something
like Al-Ox which is a green goop you use when "tipping" aluminium home wires
with copper in wire nut? Or??
Next question is for Ring terminals, PIDG Fast-Ons and D-Sub connectors, should
any goop be applied to these connections? CRC 2-56? Or? Thx. Ron P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498021#498021
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Anti corrosion on connections? |
At 09:38 PM 8/26/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hi Group, thank you for answer on using starter for ground on my
>Rotax 914. The answer is yes I can put an An-4 nut on the other side of bolt.
>
>Question: Should I use any anti corrosion goop on my starter ground
>joint? Something like Al-Ox
>which is a green goop you use when "tipping" aluminium home wires
>with copper in wire nut? Or??
Nope. A properly torqued fastener provides
a gas-tight connection where it matters. The
visible surfaces may get pretty ugly with age
but INSIDE, it will be just as bright and clean
as it was when you made up the joint 10 years ago.
>Next question is for Ring terminals, PIDG Fast-Ons and D-Sub connectors,
>should any goop be applied to these connections? CRC 2-56? Or? Thx. Ron P
Only as local extremes suggest . . . like tropical
sea shores or ocean based seaplanes. Then
consult your local mechanics for their favorite
potions demonstrated to forestall . . . not halt but
forestall environmental destruction of the
airplane.
But for the vast majority of our favorite
pleasure machines no special treatments are
necessary or useful.
Bob . . .
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