Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Rowland Carson)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Ken Ryan)
4. 08:41 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Charlie England)
5. 09:53 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:53 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:04 AM - Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? (user9253)
8. 12:10 PM - Double wall heat shrink for welding cable? (rparigoris)
9. 12:21 PM - Re: Z13-8 main alternator troubleshooting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:39 PM - Re: Double wall heat shrink for welding cable? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 03:11 PM - Rotax ignition coil faston size (William Daniell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
On 2020-08-27, at 20:07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
> I have concerns for the mechanical
> integrity of this installation as photographed.
>
> I perceived that the fat wires are probably
> $high$ 'aircraft wire' . . . nice stuff . . .
> stiff as a board. The wire has no mechanical
> support TO THE ENGINE in close proximity to
> the bolted joint.
>
> The combination of stiff, heavy wire and
> no support imparts vibrational stresses to
> the terminal flag.
>
> This is the CRANKCASE GROUND . . . usually
> a very critical wire in the system.
>
> We normally try to make that connection
> with super flexible conductors that are
> (1) resistance to flexure failures, (2)
> does not impart strong flexure forces to the
> terminal.
Bob - thank you so much for pointing out my error. The wire is indeed 4AWG Nyvin
- I received a length of it as a gift from a fellow builder. I guess I was so
happy to get such high-spec stuff free that I didnt consider the problems its
stiffness would cause in a connexion subject to vibration. Like most things,
its really obvious when I actually THINK about it! As you probably know, Rotax
engines are famous for shaking like a terrier with a rat on both startup and
shut-down, so I should have engaged brain a bit sooner.
Ill seek a UK supplier of welding cable in short lengths to replace the 2 fat cables
to the starter. The terminals on my present wires are crimped using a hand
hydraulic crimper - would that still be OK for welding cable, or is it important
to solder the joints on such wire terminations?
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
>I=99ll seek a UK supplier of welding cable in
>short lengths to replace the 2 fat cables to the
>starter. The terminals on my present wires are
>crimped using a hand hydraulic crimper - would
>that still be OK for welding cable, or is it
>important to solder the joints on such wire terminations?
Here's one option:
https://tinyurl.com/y535olwm
Crimp or solder . . . either process
skillfully applied produces the holy
grail of wire termination - gas tightness.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
Is there any real advantage to connecting the engine ground close to the
starter motor, rather than somewhere else on the engine block, or is the
advantage more theoretical? Wouldn't factors other than resistance through
the engine block, such as convenience and access, be more important
considerations?
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:58 PM Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
wrote:
> rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
>
> On 2020-08-27, at 20:07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> > I have concerns for the mechanical
> > integrity of this installation as photographed.
> >
> > I perceived that the fat wires are probably
> > $high$ 'aircraft wire' . . . nice stuff . . .
> > stiff as a board. The wire has no mechanical
> > support TO THE ENGINE in close proximity to
> > the bolted joint.
> >
> > The combination of stiff, heavy wire and
> > no support imparts vibrational stresses to
> > the terminal flag.
> >
> > This is the CRANKCASE GROUND . . . usually
> > a very critical wire in the system.
> >
> > We normally try to make that connection
> > with super flexible conductors that are
> > (1) resistance to flexure failures, (2)
> > does not impart strong flexure forces to the
> > terminal.
>
>
> Bob - thank you so much for pointing out my error. The wire is indeed 4AW
G
> Nyvin - I received a length of it as a gift from a fellow builder. I gues
s
> I was so happy to get such high-spec stuff free that I didn=99t con
sider the
> problems its stiffness would cause in a connexion subject to vibration.
> Like most things, it=99s really obvious when I actually THINK about
it! As
> you probably know, Rotax engines are famous for shaking like a terrier wi
th
> a rat on both startup and shut-down, so I should have engaged brain a bit
> sooner.
>
> I=99ll seek a UK supplier of welding cable in short lengths to repl
ace the 2
> fat cables to the starter. The terminals on my present wires are crimped
> using a hand hydraulic crimper - would that still be OK for welding cable
,
> or is it important to solder the joints on such wire terminations?
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
The advantage I see is that there are fewer 'joints' between the starter
winding and that ground return attach point. Not likely to be a 'real
world' problem, but tying directly to the starter does eliminate the sum
of resistance for all those mating surfaces, which likely have some form
of non-conductive sealant used. Again, not likely to be a real world issue.
Charlie
On 8/28/2020 9:18 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Is there any real advantage to connecting the engine ground close to
> the starter motor, rather than somewhere else on the engine block, or
> is the advantage more theoretical? Wouldn't factors other than
> resistance through the engine block, such as convenience and access,
> be more important considerations?
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:58 PM Rowland Carson
> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com <mailto:rowlandcarson@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com <mailto:rowlandcarson@gmail.com>>
>
> On 2020-08-27, at 20:07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
> <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> wrote:
>
> > I have concerns for the mechanical
> > integrity of this installation as photographed.
> >
> > I perceived that the fat wires are probably
> > $high$ 'aircraft wire' . . . nice stuff . . .
> > stiff as a board. The wire has no mechanical
> > support TO THE ENGINE in close proximity to
> > the bolted joint.
> >
> > The combination of stiff, heavy wire and
> > no support imparts vibrational stresses to
> > the terminal flag.
> >
> > This is the CRANKCASE GROUND . . . usually
> > a very critical wire in the system.
> >
> > We normally try to make that connection
> > with super flexible conductors that are
> > (1) resistance to flexure failures, (2)
> > does not impart strong flexure forces to the
> > terminal.
>
>
> Bob - thank you so much for pointing out my error. The wire is
> indeed 4AWG Nyvin - I received a length of it as a gift from a
> fellow builder. I guess I was so happy to get such high-spec stuff
> free that I didnt consider the problems its stiffness would cause
> in a connexion subject to vibration. Like most things, its really
> obvious when I actually THINK about it! As you probably know,
> Rotax engines are famous for shaking like a terrier with a rat on
> both startup and shut-down, so I should have engaged brain a bit
> sooner.
>
> Ill seek a UK supplier of welding cable in short lengths to
> replace the 2 fat cables to the starter. The terminals on my
> present wires are crimped using a hand hydraulic crimper - would
> that still be OK for welding cable, or is it important to solder
> the joints on such wire terminations?
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
At 09:18 AM 8/28/2020, you wrote:
>Is there any real advantage to connecting the engine ground close to
>the starter motor, rather than somewhere else on the engine block,
>or is the advantage more theoretical? Wouldn't factors other than
>resistance through the engine block, such as convenience and access,
>be more important considerations?
Good question.
Absolutely. For example, do you want your crankcase
ground to run to the other end of the engine to access
a bolt near the starter on a Lycoming or would some
fastener local to the firewall ground stud be
more appropriate?
Variation in path resistance across the engine
would be difficult to measure much less drive
an architecture decision. Short and sweet is
almost always best.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
At 10:38 AM 8/28/2020, you wrote:
>The advantage I see is that there are fewer 'joints' between the
>starter winding and that ground return attach point. Not likely to
>be a 'real world' problem, but tying directly to the starter does
>eliminate the sum of resistance for all those mating surfaces, which
>likely have some form of non-conductive sealant used. Again, not
>likely to be a real world issue.
Yeah, if one could measure point-to-point
resistances across the engine, there would
no doubt be some variations due to factors
you've cited . . . but looking for the
the 'best' path would not be easy or
productive.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Use 1/4" hole on starter for engine ground? |
Connecting the ground cable directly to the starter is theoretically better, but
connecting to the engine block is good enough. But if the starter location is
more convenient and uses less cable, then why not?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498054#498054
Message 8
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| Subject: | Double wall heat shrink for welding cable? |
Hi Bob you wrote this on a replyand I don't understand it "I need to upgrade that
article to suggest welding cable with double-wall heat shrink as opposed to
the stiff-stuff"
I plan on using B&C #4 Super-Flex Battery Leads going from firewall to engine x2:
https://bandc.com/product/super-flex-battery-lead-red-raw-material/ when you
suggest using double wall heat shrink, are you suggesting to use double wall
heat shrink tubing only at terminal lugs or for the entire length of the welding
cable?? What type of heat shrink is your suggestion? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498056#498056
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Z13-8 main alternator troubleshooting |
>
>Any suggestions before I just go out and buy a new VR-166?
Go ahead and get the new regulator then rig
this test setup.
https://tinyurl.com/yxhknfhk
Conduct test as written. This will narrow
down your field of investigation by half.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Double wall heat shrink for welding cable? |
At 02:05 PM 8/28/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob you wrote this on a replyand I don't understand it "I need to
>upgrade that article to suggest welding cable with double-wall heat
>shrink as opposed to the stiff-stuff"
>I plan on using B&C #4 Super-Flex Battery Leads going from firewall
>to engine x2:
>https://bandc.com/product/super-flex-battery-lead-red-raw-material/
>when you suggest using double wall heat shrink, are you suggesting
>to use double wall heat shrink tubing only at terminal lugs or for
>the entire length of the welding cable?? What type of heat shrink is
>your suggestion? Thx. Ron P.
Only at the ends as illustrated in my article.
Here's a good example:
https://tinyurl.com/y2eyw8k3
3/4" unshrunk with 3:1 shrink ratio. Short
pieces fit easily over your crimped/soldered
terminal but will definitely shrink to a
good fit with sealant oozing out both ends.
The high shrink ratio makes the finished
shrink wall thicker for improved flexure
support . . . the sealant keeps the moisture
out.
Good stuff Maynard!
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax ignition coil faston size |
Does anyone know the size of the faston for the rotax ignition connectors?
Thanks
Willl
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
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