AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 09/08/20


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:02 AM - User Quarantine Account Information (Email Security Gateway)
     2. 03:27 AM - Re: User Quarantine Account Information (GTH)
     3. 04:43 AM - Re: User Quarantine Account Information (Werner Schneider)
     4. 07:16 AM - Re: Alternator/Strobe whine (user9253)
     5. 07:18 AM - Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera 660 (Argonaut36)
     6. 08:39 AM - Re: Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera 660 (John M Tipton)
     7. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors (Paul Eckenroth)
     8. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine (Charlie England)
    10. 03:20 PM - Re: User Quarantine Account Information (GTH)
    11. 03:39 PM - Spam Quarantine Summary - (1) (Email Security Gateway)
    12. 04:24 PM - Re: AV 30 Wiring (farmrjohn)
    13. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine (Rick Beebe)
    14. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: AV 30 Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:02:00 AM PST US
    From: "Email Security Gateway" <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: User Quarantine Account Information
    V2VsY29tZSB0byB0aGUgIEVtYWlsIFNlY3VyaXR5IEdhdGV3YXkgLiAgVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGNv bnRhaW5zIHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB5b3Ugd2lsbCBuZWVkIHRvIGFjY2VzcyB5b3VyIFNwYW0g UXVhcmFudGluZSBhbmQgUHJlZmVyZW5jZXMuCgpZb3VyIGFjY291bnQgaGFzIGJlZW4gc2V0IHRv IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdXNlcm5hbWUgYW5kIHBhc3N3b3JkOgogICAgVXNlcm5hbWU6ICBhZXJv ZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIAogICAgUGFzc3dvcmQ6ICBRTWNuWnZEKk1WQ1o9 d3lIIAoKVG8gbG9naW4gdG8geW91ciBTcGFtIFF1YXJhbnRpbmUgdXNlIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcg bGluazogIGh0dHBzOi8vOTYuNjguMTcxLjIxIAoKICAK


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:27:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: User Quarantine Account Information
    From: GTH <gilles.thesee@free.fr>
    /Le 08/09/2020 12:00, Email Security Gateway a crit: / > /Welcome to the Email Security Gateway . This message contains the > information you will need to access your Spam Quarantine and Preferences. > / / > Your account has been set to the following username and password: > Username: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Password: ****** > / / > To login to your Spam Quarantine use the following link: > https://96.68.171.21/ Hi all, anyone received the above message ? Is it safe ? Thanks -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:43:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: User Quarantine Account Information
    From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
    Hi Gilles, the IP belongs to Matt, so it should be safe, however I see no reason to check for SPAM/Quarantine messages on his server :) I guess Matt will enlight us soon if that one escaped by accident or it is something we should use. I guess he is installing new modules and that message escaped to the list instead of him. Cheers Werner On 08.09.2020 12:26, GTH wrote: > /Le 08/09/2020 12:00, Email Security Gateway a crit: > / >> /Welcome to the Email Security Gateway . This message contains the >> information you will need to access your Spam Quarantine and Preferences. >> / / >> Your account has been set to the following username and password: >> Username: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Password: ****** >> / / >> To login to your Spam Quarantine use the following link: >> https://96.68.171.21/ > > > Hi all, anyone received the above message ? > > Is it safe ? > > Thanks > > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:16:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    Try running power and ground to the strobes using a twisted pair of wires. Increasing the main alternator "B" terminal wire size might help. Make sure the main alternator terminals are clean and tight. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498258#498258


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:18:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera 660
    From: "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino@msn.com>
    I have recently purchased a Garmin AERA 660 portable GPS navigator. The unit holder to be used in the airplane is equipped with a cigarette lighter connector plug (outfitted with a 3A fast fuse). Could somebody recommend a good quality cigarette lighter connector socket that I can connect to the electrical system of my airplane? I would like to buy a socket that can be installed using an Adel clamp. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498259#498259


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:39:52 AM PST US
    From: John M Tipton <john@tipton.me.uk>
    Subject: Re: Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera
    660 Cut off the plug and connect to your electrical system John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- > On 8 Sep 2020, at 3:37 pm, Argonaut36 <fmlibrino@msn.com> wrote: > > > I have recently purchased a Garmin AERA 660 portable GPS navigator. The unit holder to be used in the airplane is equipped with a cigarette lighter connector plug (outfitted with a 3A fast fuse). > > Could somebody recommend a good quality cigarette lighter connector socket that I can connect to the electrical system of my airplane? I would like to buy a socket that can be installed using an Adel clamp. > > Thanks > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498259#498259 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:34:39 PM PST US
    From: Paul Eckenroth <N509RV@eckenroth.com>
    Subject: Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors
    I think that there might be a misunderstanding of the Revmaster architecture in that I don't believe that the windings for the two generators are in tandem but are a series of 5 coils each for two generators. I have enclosed a picture of the stator from my friend's engine. He was running one generator at the time and you can see how severely it was destroyed. The Phenolic base was also destroyed. The second generator coils don't look bad but they are also ruined. To me one of the interesting things is that the ignition coils are still functional. My primary purpose in starting this thread was to hopefully end up with a definite fix for the problem. Trying this or that is not practicable due to the destructive nature of the overheating. The stator is over $500 to replace and requires pulling the engine to do so. I'll only really know that the problem is fixed when the smoke stays in the coils. It seems to me that the most important change will be to use the B&C AVC1 volltage regulator since it is designed for firewall forward and can be adjusted down to 13.7 v which is the minimum voltage that will fully charge the EarthX battery. With the voltage reduction should come current reduction. What I don't know (and hopefully the educated on the list can explain) is whether restricting the voltage will also restrict the current. Can the generator still create abnormal current and therefore heat. I will try and incorporate thermocouples in with the coils but I'm not sure how much advance warning they can give. So, with the new voltage regulator set at 13.7 can the generator still pump out current based on engine speed and battery resistance or is the current capped since the voltage is restricted. I'm trying to determine if I have a good chance of success here. Does anybody want to redesign the generator to make it more robust. Paul [image: IMG-2451.jpeg] On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:36 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >>So take a peek at the simplified proposal diagram. > >>Hook the two Revmaster windings in series-aiding > >>and bring out the center-tap. Connect in full wave > >>configuration with only TWO junction rectifiers. > > I like the approach and two questions come to mind: > How well the current will be equally divided by the two windings? > This is half wave rectification, right? > > > No, full wave . . . the current doesn't > NEED to be exactly shared . . . each winding > conduct on 1/2 cycle of the time independently > of each other. Unlike the legacy, single winding > PMA and bridge rectifier approach, this > configuration splits the two halves onto > separate windings . . . but it's still > full wave rectification. > > I have not spun my engine yet but from examination of the windings I > expect to see the two PMAs "IN PHASE" and as noted, single phase, not > polyphase. Does this configuration change the expectation of roughly > evenly divided current? If the two PMAs were out of phase by 180 degrees > (which is possible if my talents with the "right hand rule" are off abit) I > assume the center tap would not operate the same, if at all. > > > From what I understand, the Revmaster > PMA is wound BI-FILAR meaning two strands > of wire side-by-by side. This produces > two, identical windings that COULD and > perhaps SHOULD be wired in parallel. This > would cut the current in each winding to > 1/2 of the total. > > I have to pull my engine once more before I start it (hopefully, yet this > fall) and will examine the windings on the PMAs closely to convince myself > of the phase relationship between the two halves. > > > The result is predictable. You have two, identical > windings sharing the same physical space > on the stator. Voltages induced by the > mechanics and magnetics are identical. > Given that the burning the 'active' winding > also burns the 'standby' winding, you do > not have redundant systems. You might as > well run the two windings in parallel > which would greatly reduce the stress on > the wires and may well drive the 'lithium' > failure rate to zero. > > One final note. I've thought about this a little (clearly not as much as > Bob). I plan on installing thermo-couples as close to the center of each > stator base as I can. My thought is to run the engine as deigned, with OEM > regulators and running one halve at a time. I am planning on a Odyssey > battery (PC680) with added (2) shunt resistors in the charge circuit to > increase the load seen by the PMAs. I plan on trying to identify what the > conditions are that lead to the high temperature in the PMAs. I hope to be > able to install the TCs close enough to the windings to obtain a warning > before they overheat. I think the expected meltdown of the "enamel" > insulation is a bit over 200C. Can anyone confirm? > > > I don't know of any manufacturer of aviation > hardware that doesn't call out Class H insulation > for their magnet wire > > https://tinyurl.com/y3a7o26s > > Without going to some exotic wire coated > with un-obtainium, Class H is the best > you can buy off the shelf. So yeah, 200C > max operating for the copper . . . > > Thermocoupling the windings is not a bad idea. > Are those stator windings varnished? Getting > a 'real' copper temperature number on a running > machine is not easy. The closest I ever > got to 'real' measurements was by bringing > leads for winding-under-observation outside > so that it could be quickly switched from > 'service' to 'measure' mode by exciting the > winding with a calibrated current and then > measuring the voltage drop. Copper temperature > can be calculated by knowing the temperature coefficient > of resistance for copper. This had to be done > quickly (under 100 mS) 'cause the copper cools > very rapidly when the loads are removed and the > heat soaks out. > > Generally speaking, with your 200C rated wire, > getting thermocouple readings over 170-180C > would be cause for concern. > > We KNOW this design is thermally deficient . . . > too many of them have burned up in service. > Too many band-aids have been suggested > and attempted with little if any relief. > > > In the long term, I'd like to install something like the CCCV regulator > mentioned. Is there actually such a regulator designed and available for a > PMA on an OBAM aircraft? > > > Sure, they're commercial off the shelf items. > I've got a couple on the bench now that I'm > going to use in a proof-of-concept study. But > after reading about the bi-filar windings > design, I'm not sure there's much value to > be secured by 'upgrading' the rectifier/regulator > design for this engine. > > As currently configured, there is NO REDUNDANCY > of engine driven power sources. I'm beginning > to think one would be well advised to > simply parallel the two windings and treat > them as one. This alone would produce a profound > drop in wire temperatures for any given load. > > Bob . . . >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:45:34 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine
    Alternator, strobe or both? Alternator whine is almost always a ground loop issue. Pitch of whine will go up and down with engine rpm. It often gets louder when alternator loads are highest like right after starting engine (recharging battery) and all loads turned on. Strobe whine pitches up and down in synchronization with flashes from the strobes and is generally of constant volume. Which one(s) disappear when appliance is OFF. Alternator, strobe or both? Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:07:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    On 9/8/2020 3:41 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Alternator, strobe or both? > > Alternator whine is almost always a ground loop issue. > Pitch of whine will go up and down with engine rpm. > It often gets louder when alternator loads are highest > like right after starting engine (recharging battery) > and all loads turned on. > > Strobe whine pitches up and down in synchronization > with flashes from the strobes and is generally of > constant volume. > > Which one(s) disappear when appliance is OFF. > Alternator, strobe or both? > > > Bob . . . > I think he mentioned in his reply to me that it was the 'woop woop' indicating it is a strobe sound, but he also said that it stops when the main alternator is turned off. (?) -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:20:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: User Quarantine Account Information
    From: GTH <gilles.thesee@free.fr>
    Le 08/09/2020 13:41, Werner Schneider a crit: > / > / / > I guess Matt will enlight us soon if that one escaped by accident or it > is something we should use. > / / > I guess he is installing new modules and that message escaped to the > list instead of him. > / Thank you Werner ! -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:39:32 PM PST US
    From: "Email Security Gateway" <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Spam Quarantine Summary - (1)
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    Message 12


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    Time: 04:24:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: AV 30 Wiring
    From: "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard@yahoo.com>
    Bump, primarily to re-ask the question about the diagram for the certified version with the "X" in the shield symbol. Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498276#498276


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:53:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator/Strobe whine
    From: Rick Beebe <rick@beebe.org>
    I'll be back at the plane on Saturday and I will do some controlled tests. The noise pitch is definitely in sync with the strobes. When I turn the main alternator off the noise goes away completely. My memory is that it also goes away when I turn the strobes off (main alternator on), but I'm not sure if there's a residual whine. --Rick On 9/8/2020 4:41 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Alternator, strobe or both? > > Alternator whine is almost always a ground loop issue. > Pitch of whine will go up and down with engine rpm. > It often gets louder when alternator loads are highest > like right after starting engine (recharging battery) > and all loads turned on. > > Strobe whine pitches up and down in synchronization > with flashes from the strobes and is generally of > constant volume. > > Which one(s) disappear when appliance is OFF. > Alternator, strobe or both? > > > Bob . . . >


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:28:38 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: AV 30 Wiring
    At 06:21 PM 9/8/2020, you wrote: > >Bump, primarily to re-ask the question about the diagram for the >certified version with the "X" in the shield symbol. Thanks, John I would infer that to indicate twisted conductors . . . but then I think one would be hard pressed to find a shielded pair that was not twisted. Bob . . .




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