Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors (Paul Eckenroth)
2. 09:15 AM - Re: Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera 660 (allenmaris)
3. 10:20 AM - Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors (user9253)
4. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors (Charlie England)
5. 02:35 PM - Re: AV 30 Wiring (donjohnston)
6. 02:40 PM - Re: Lycoming EIS wirig recommendation (donjohnston)
7. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors (Ernest Christley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors |
I think that there might be a misunderstanding of the Revmaster
architecture in that I don't believe that the windings for the two
generators are in tandem but are a series of 5 coils each for two
generators. I have enclosed a picture of the stator from my friend's
engine. He was running one generator at the time and you can see how
severely it was destroyed. The Phenolic base was also destroyed. The
second generator coils don't look bad but they are also ruined. To me one
of the interesting things is that the ignition coils are still functional.
My primary purpose in starting this thread was to hopefully end up with a
definite fix for the problem. Trying this or that is not practicable due
to the destructive nature of the overheating. The stator is over $500 to
replace and requires pulling the engine to do so. I'll only really know
that the problem is fixed when the smoke stays in the coils.
It seems to me that the most important change will be to use the B&C AVC1
volltage regulator since it is designed for firewall forward and can be
adjusted down to 13.7 v which is the minimum voltage that will fully
charge the EarthX battery. With the voltage reduction should come current
reduction. What I don't know (and hopefully the educated on the list can
explain) is whether restricting the voltage will also restrict the
current. Can the generator still create abnormal current and therefore
heat. I will try and incorporate thermocouples in with the coils but I'm
not sure how much advance warning they can give.
So, with the new voltage regulator set at 13.7 can the generator still pump
out current based on engine speed and battery resistance or is the current
capped since the voltage is restricted. I'm trying to determine if I have a
good chance of success here.
Does anybody want to redesign the generator to make it more robust.
Paul
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:25 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:39 AM 8/31/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> Using both windings is a good idea.
> What about the phase angle between the two windings? Do we know what it
> is?
>
>
> No . . .
>
> Suppose the two windings are 90 degrees out of phase or some other unknown
> angle.
> How will that affect the proposed circuit? Will the peak AC voltage be
> higher?
>
>
> Good question.
>
> I doubt they are polyphase . . . you gotta go to a
> lot of mechanical fuss to achieve it. It's a function
> of stator/magnet ring geometry. They might be different
> but it's doubtful. Issue 80 of Contact! magazine has
> some nice pictures of the stator arrangement:
>
> http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue80/Issue-80L.pdf
>
>
> Do capacitors help very much to smooth the DC voltage in a power circuit?
>
>
> They can . . . it's all about current/capacitance ratio
> versus frequency. If a capacitor is necessary, it will
> be dictated by the CCCV down converter tolerance for
> ripple.
>
> It would help to have a Revmaster alternator to play with.
>
>
> You got that right!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cigarette lighter socket to power a Garmin Aera |
660
Argonaut36 wrote:
> I have recently purchased a Garmin AERA 660 portable GPS navigator. The unit
holder to be used in the airplane is equipped with a cigarette lighter connector
plug (outfitted with a 3A fast fuse).
>
> Could somebody recommend a good quality cigarette lighter connector socket that
I can connect to the electrical system of my airplane? I would like to buy
a socket that can be installed using an Adel clamp.
>
> Thanks
I've heard good things about these on VAF.
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Charge-Charger/dp/B001U4ZZPK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521418596&sr=8-1&keywords=blue%2Bsea%2Busb&th=1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498285#498285
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors |
Current is not capped. Current is determined by the load. The load takes
what it wants. Some loads such as batteries and resistance type loads will
take less current when the voltage drops. Loads with switching power
supplies will take more current as the voltage drops because they operate with
constant power. Many modern avionics have switching power supplies.
Lowering the voltage will reduce the EarthX battery charging current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498286#498286
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors |
On 9/9/2020 12:14 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Current is not capped. Current is determined by the load. The load takes
> what it wants. Some loads such as batteries and resistance type loads will
> take less current when the voltage drops. Loads with switching power
> supplies will take more current as the voltage drops because they operate with
> constant power. Many modern avionics have switching power supplies.
> Lowering the voltage will reduce the EarthX battery charging current.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
Ohm's Law sets the current. The battery has a source impedance when
supplying energy, and it has a load impedance when being charged. The
battery mfgr should be able to tell you the battery's load impedance
while charging (ask for worst case). That number, and the charge
voltage, will give you the charging current. Off-the-shelf 'smart'
battery chargers manage current by adjusting voltage 'on the fly',
tailored to optimum charge rates for a particular battery.
If I were dealing with a 'locked in' flaky design like the Revmaster,
I'd be looking at using a constant current source between the
alternator-regulator and the rest of the airframe. With lithium tech
being found everywhere now, constant voltage/constant current
(misleading term...) battery chargers are everywhere at very reasonable
prices. By inserting one between the regulator's output and the
airframe's bus, you can set the current limit in the charging module at
a point lower than the 'at risk' point for your alternator.
BTW, with a $500 price point, I'd be finding the original source for
that armature. That style alternator is used in dozens (hundreds?) of
products. I'd bet that with a little research, you could find that model
from the actual mfgr for a lot less money. If not, I'd be finding a way
to install an external alternator. I wouldn't be able to stand it. :-)
Charlie
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AV 30 Wiring |
I would agree. On the second drawing, the only place TPS is shown is on those
wires with the "X".
Although it does appear the shields are grounded in two places. I thought the
idea was to always ground the shield at one end.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498289#498289
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming EIS wirig recommendation |
It's a SureFly.
https://www.lycoming.com/eis
> The Lycoming EIS was developed by SureFly Partners, Ltd. with input from Lycomings
engineering teams to meet Lycomings exacting specifications.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498290#498290
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Revmaster 'dual' alterantors |
Well, for $500 you could rewind the stator by hand, and use a heavier gauge
wire.
I don't understand why this would be so expensive. You can get the entire c
harging system for a Harley for around $150.
Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 6:45, Paul Eckenroth<N509RV@eckenroth.com> wrote:
I think that there might be a misunderstanding of the Revmaster architect
ure in that I don't believe that the windings for the two generators are in
tandem but are a series=C2-of 5 coils each for two generators.=C2- =C2
-I have enclosed a picture of the stator from my friend's engine.=C2- H
e was running one generator at the time and you can see how severely it was
destroyed.=C2- The Phenolic=C2-base was also destroyed.=C2- The seco
nd generator coils don't look bad but they are also ruined.=C2- To me one
of the interesting things is that the ignition=C2-coils are still functi
onal.=C2-=C2-My primary purpose in starting this thread was to hopefull
y end up with a definite fix for the problem.=C2- Trying this or that is
not practicable due to the destructive nature of the overheating.=C2- The
stator is over $500 to replace and requires=C2-pulling the engine to do
so.=C2- I'll only really know that the problem is fixed when the smoke st
ays in the coils.=C2-It seems to me that the most important change will b
e to use the B&C AVC1 volltage regulator since it is designed for firewall
forward and can be adjusted down to 13.7 v=C2- which is the minimum volta
ge that will fully charge the EarthX battery.=C2- With the voltage reduct
ion should come current reduction.=C2- What I don't know (and hopefully t
he educated on the list can explain) is whether restricting the voltage wil
l also restrict the current.=C2- Can the generator still create abnormal
current and therefore heat. I will try and incorporate thermocouples in wit
h the coils but I'm not sure how much advance warning they can give.So, wit
h the new voltage regulator set at 13.7 can the generator still pump out cu
rrent based on engine speed and battery resistance or is the current capped
since the voltage is restricted. I'm trying to determine if I have a good
chance of success here.Does anybody want to redesign the generator to make
it more robust.
Paul
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:25 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aero
electric.com> wrote:
At 10:39 AM 8/31/2020, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Using both windings is a good idea.
What about the phase angle between the two windings?=C2- Do we knowwhat i
t is?
=C2- No . . .
Suppose the two windings are 90degrees out of phase or some other unknown a
ngle.=C2-
How will that affect the proposed circuit?=C2- Will the peak AC voltagebe
higher?
=C2-
=C2- Good question.
=C2- I doubt they are polyphase . . . you gotta go to a
=C2- lot of mechanical fuss to achieve it. It's a function
=C2- of stator/magnet ring geometry. They might be different
=C2- but it's doubtful.=C2- Issue 80 of Contact! magazine has
=C2- some nice pictures of the stator arrangement:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue80/Issue-80L.pdf
Do capacitors help very much tosmooth the DC voltage in a power circuit?
=C2- They can . . . it's all about current/capacitance ratio
=C2- versus frequency. If a capacitor is necessary, it will
=C2- be dictated by the CCCV down converter tolerance for
=C2- ripple.
It would help to have aRevmaster alternator to play with.
=C2- You got that right!
=C2- Bob . . .
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