---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/19/20: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Alternator sawtooth current generation (rv8ch) 2. 02:07 AM - Re: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:20 AM - Re: Alternator sawtooth current generation (Charlie England) 4. 07:05 AM - Re: Alternator sawtooth current generation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:13 AM - Re: Alternator sawtooth current generation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:30 AM - Re: Alternator sawtooth current generation (Charlie England) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter (Charlie England) 9. 08:47 AM - Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (meat_ball) 10. 09:03 AM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (Sebastien) 11. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter (Sebastien) 12. 09:31 AM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (meat_ball) 13. 09:43 AM - Re: Alternator sawtooth current generation (Mickey Coggins) 14. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (Sebastien) 15. 10:40 AM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (David Saylor) 16. 10:54 AM - Getting the numbers . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 11:56 AM - Re: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp (rparigoris) 18. 12:08 PM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (rparigoris) 19. 12:40 PM - S701-1 master relay wiring? (David Carter) 20. 02:00 PM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (meat_ball) 21. 02:06 PM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (meat_ball) 22. 02:25 PM - Re: S701-1 master relay wiring? (Kent or Jackie Ashton) 23. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp (Charlie England) 24. 03:38 PM - Re: S701-1 master relay wiring? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 25. 05:10 PM - Re: S701-1 master relay wiring? (A RICHARD GOLDMAN) 26. 05:58 PM - Re: S701-1 master relay wiring? (user9253) 27. 06:43 PM - Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (Art Zemon) 28. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag (Art Zemon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation From: "rv8ch" Planepower/Harzell 60Amp, Earthx battery, GRT EIS 4000 w/hall effect sensor on alternator B-lead, running all lights, etc. Steady state getting these kinds of current fluctuations (see attachment). Got some good suggestions from VAF and tried them all, even replaced the alternator, same behavior. https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=186043 The current shows a consistent pattern, and regular period of a bit over 11 seconds. I don't know of anything in my aircraft with that period. It's all new, and this has been happening since the start. Happy for any hints! -------- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498424#498424 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hb_ymm_alternator_output_20200918_839.png ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp At 02:01 PM 9/18/2020, you wrote: > >Hi Group I need to wire several LEDs and small relays. I want to use >small wire to do so and would like to steal some electron flow from >some near by sources which are fused well above rating of small >wire. Thus I want to install fuses. What are some options for small >physical size fuses? At moment I'm thinking something I can solder >and shrink wrap onto the wire? Thx. Ron P. > How many 'feeders' at what current levels? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:40 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 3:59 AM rv8ch wrote: > > Planepower/Harzell 60Amp, Earthx battery, GRT EIS 4000 w/hall effect > sensor on alternator B-lead, running all lights, etc. Steady state getting > these kinds of current fluctuations (see attachment). > > Got some good suggestions from VAF and tried them all, even replaced the > alternator, same behavior. > > https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=186043 > > The current shows a consistent pattern, and regular period of a bit over > 11 seconds. > > I don't know of anything in my aircraft with that period. It's all new, > and this has been happening since the start. > > Happy for any hints! > > -------- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > > > Hi Mickey, Questions spawn questions. :-) It doesn't look like there's any issue with the voltage. If you can access a stand-alone high current DC amp meter, that would be my 1st step; wire it in series with the alternator B lead to verify your EIS current readings as vailid. Assuming the current variations are real.... Where's the current sensor installed? On the alt B lead it will show total current. On the Battery 'fat' lead, it will show charge/discharge to/from the battery. On the bus feeder, it will show current consumed by airframe devices. Since it's a Hall sensor, it should be easy to move it around in the electrical system. Move it to the battery's 'fat' pos. lead, to see if the current fluctuates going into the battery. If you see the variations there, repeat the test with an SLA battery.... Try it on the bus feeder. If you didn't see variations on the battery, you should see them going to the airframe's devices. Start with everything turned on, and one by one, turn off devices, until nothing is left powered in the plane. If it's a device causing the variations, it should be obvious which one is doing it. Having said that, a 10A 'bump' in current, going to zero current, on an 11 second cycle rate, does not sound like any typical current consuming device in our planes (you don't have anything like electric seat heaters, do you?). My money is 1st on measurement error, and my hedge is the battery. Charlie ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation At 03:55 AM 9/19/2020, you wrote: > >Planepower/Harzell 60Amp, Earthx battery, GRT EIS 4000 w/hall effect >sensor on alternator B-lead, running all lights, etc. Steady state >getting these kinds of current fluctuations (see attachment). how big are the variations? Is vertical scale on the plot zero to some max amps? >Got some good suggestions from VAF and tried them all, even replaced >the alternator, same behavior. > >https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=186043 > >The current shows a consistent pattern, and regular period of a bit >over 11 seconds. > >I don't know of anything in my aircraft with that period. It's all >new, and this has been happening since the start. What's the bus voltage doing during this time? As long as the bus voltage is reasonably constant and the alternator is not overloaded, I'm not sure current flow from the alternator has much significance. The alternator has no control over current . . . only voltage and that by way of commands from the regulator. So it was safe bet that replacing the alternator wouldn't 'fix' it. But it's not really clear that anything needs fixing . . . need to know the scale factors for that current plot. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation >Hi Mickey, > >Questions spawn questions. :-) >It doesn't look like there's any issue with the voltage. > >If you can access a stand-alone high current DC >amp meter, that would be my 1st step; wire it in >series with the alternator B lead to verify your >EIS current readings as vailid.=C2 Right on >My money is 1st on measurement error, and my hedge is the battery. > >Charlie Agreed. I'd conduct some experiments with the sensor and compared with another instrument and battery power only. See if that puppy's calibration is good. The 11-second period is interesting . . . wondering if this might be a 'beat note' between two regular features of noise on the bus irritating the a/d conversion process in the instrumentation. But if the bus voltage is stable then some sort of measurement error is high on the list of probabilities. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter At 11:02 PM 9/17/2020, you wrote: >A couple weeks ago I ordered one of these off eBay: > >https://www.ebay.ca/itm/192243452240 > >DC-DC Converter >5 Amps >Input 3-35 V >Output 5-40 V > >I'm trying to support ~1 A EFIS during start so I thought 5 A would >be plenty but a closer look at the description says it's good for 3 >A with a maximum of 5 A. Turns out the 3 A is on the input side, not >the output side. With a voltage output set point of 10V and a ~1 A >lamp connected, the lamp browns out (literally) as soon as the input >voltage sags below 9V. A long way from the 7V minimum I was hoping >for. I plugged it into a Battery Analyzer at 1.0 and 0.5 A and >momentarily dropped the input voltage to 8V. Even when voltage is >restored it takes several seconds to recover back to the set voltage >with a 1 A load. A 0.5 A load is fine. Good investigative work sir! You're on the right track. The up-converter you have is a bit on the light side. I'd go for beefy . . . and the up-converter needs to be characterized in Watts. A converter that would support a 5A load at 14V would be rated at 70 W or more. The test articles I have on hand are, as I recall, 150 W devices. I'm hoping to put power to them to see if I can characterize their dynamic qualities before I send you one. I'm a bit out of pocket right now. Getting ready for some roto-rooter work on my back . . . got a leg that occasionally says, "I quit". It would not be a good thing to be loading a patient and suddenly find yourself on the ground asking the patient to help you up! Doc says it's a quick fix with excellent prospects for success but in the interim, my forays about the shop are limited. The up converters I have are, I believe, this one: https://tinyurl.com/yxndk24a Price is right, size is convenient . . . and there is little risk for having one that is too big. Thanks for sharing your observations. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation From: Charlie England On 9/19/2020 9:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> Hi Mickey, >> >> Questions spawn questions. :-) >> It doesn't look like there's any issue with the voltage. >> >> If you can access a stand-alone high current DC amp meter, that would >> be my 1st step; wire it in series with the alternator B lead to >> verify your EIS current readings as vailid. > > Right on > > >> My money is 1st on measurement error, and my hedge is the battery. >> >> Charlie > > Agreed. I'd conduct some experiments with the sensor > and compared with another instrument and battery > power only. See if that puppy's calibration is good. > The 11-second period is interesting . . . wondering > if this might be a 'beat note' between two regular > features of noise on the bus irritating the a/d > conversion process in the instrumentation. > > But if the bus voltage is stable then some sort > of measurement error is high on the list of > probabilities. > > > Bob . . . > Bob, The image in his VAF thread shows V & I ranges; V variation is ~.3V; I is ~0--~10A. The only 'device' I can think of that might cycle like that, at that wattage level, would be a heater circuit that had a controller capable of ramping power up/down in response to temp changes. Oh...Pitot heat! Dynon and probably others now have temp controllers for their pitot heat. And the current is about right. Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter From: Charlie England On 9/19/2020 9:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 11:02 PM 9/17/2020, you wrote: >> A couple weeks ago I ordered one of these off eBay: >> >> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/192243452240 >> >> >> DC-DC Converter >> 5 Amps >> Input 3-35 V >> Output 5-40 V >> >> I'm trying to support ~1 A EFIS during start so I thought 5 A would >> be plenty but a closer look at the description says it's good for 3 A >> with a maximum of 5 A. Turns out the 3 A is on the input side, not >> the output side. With a voltage output set point of 10V and a ~1 A >> lamp connected, the lamp browns out (literally) as soon as the input >> voltage sags below 9V. A long way from the 7V minimum I was hoping >> for. I plugged it into a Battery Analyzer at 1.0 and 0.5 A and >> momentarily dropped the input voltage to 8V. Even when voltage is >> restored it takes several seconds to recover back to the set voltage >> with a 1 A load. A 0.5 A load is fine. > > Good investigative work sir! You're > on the right track. The up-converter > you have is a bit on the light side. > > I'd go for beefy . . . and the up-converter > needs to be characterized in Watts. A converter > that would support a 5A load at 14V would be > rated at 70 W or more. > > The test articles I have on hand are, as I recall, > 150 W devices. I'm hoping to put power to them > to see if I can characterize their dynamic qualities > before I send you one. > > I'm a bit out of pocket right now. Getting ready for > some roto-rooter work on my back . . . got a leg > that occasionally says, "I quit". It would not be > a good thing to be loading a patient and suddenly > find yourself on the ground asking the patient > to help you up! > > Doc says it's a quick fix with excellent > prospects for success but in the interim, > my forays about the shop are limited. The > up converters I have are, I believe, this > one: > > https://tinyurl.com/yxndk24a > > Price is right, size is convenient . . . > and there is little risk for having > one that is too big. Thanks for sharing > your observations. > > > Bob . . . > These: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-10-12-15-20A-150-250-300-400-1200W-Step-up-Step-down-Buck-Boost/382219150784?hash=item58fe0965c0:g:6OwAAOSwisVZrgue Claim to be good down to 8.5V input. Various wattage versions available. Charlie -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag From: "meat_ball" Hello all again. I want to install AeroLeds Aerosun landing and taxi lights. Two lights total, one will be oriented for taxi attitude and one slightly higher orientation for the landing light attitude on my tail dragger. That said, my thoughts, since these lights have a built in wig-wag function, are to do just that. However, I cannot figure out how to wire it. According to the install guide for the lights, it says to have 2 switches. One for the landing lights, and one for the wig wag function, which is fine if you are using both lights as landing lights. Since I want one light as a landing light and one as a taxi light, but use both for the wig-wag function, how does that work switch-wise? One switch as OFF-Taxi-Both, and the other wig-wag? There isn't enough information to know if when the wig-wag is "ON" the other switch is bypassed? Am I thinking along the right lines? Better way to do this? Any help? I've attached the install manual wiring diagram... Thanks so much! Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498434#498434 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screenshot_2020_09_19_0100_0003_01_2120_aerosun_installation_revb_pdf_166.png ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:48 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag Hello Rob, I think you are overthinking it. By all means aim them differently so that you have the best lighting for both landing and taxi, and using the wig wag function is better than not using the wig wag function regardless of which way they are aiming, but why not just wire it exactly as per that drawing? Are you ever going to need to turn off just one light? On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:52 AM meat_ball wrote: > arjayefem@fastmail.net> > > Hello all again. > > I want to install AeroLeds Aerosun landing and taxi lights. Two lights > total, one will be oriented for taxi attitude and one slightly higher > orientation for the landing light attitude on my tail dragger. That said, > my thoughts, since these lights have a built in wig-wag function, are to do > just that. However, I cannot figure out how to wire it. > > According to the install guide for the lights, it says to have 2 > switches. One for the landing lights, and one for the wig wag function, > which is fine if you are using both lights as landing lights. Since I want > one light as a landing light and one as a taxi light, but use both for the > wig-wag function, how does that work switch-wise? One switch as > OFF-Taxi-Both, and the other wig-wag? There isn't enough information to > know if when the wig-wag is "ON" the other switch is bypassed? Am I > thinking along the right lines? Better way to do this? > > Any help? I've attached the install manual wiring diagram... > > Thanks so much! > > Rob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498434#498434 > > > Attachments: > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screenshot_2020_09_19_0100_0003_01_2120_aerosun_installation_revb_pdf_166.png > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:47 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Brownout Step Up Converter Now I'm getting confused. The converter Bob linked to has a minimum of 10 volts input. Charlie's is 8.5 volts. The only time we want these units working is below 10 volts, and they need to work much lower than that. The last start on my aircraft recorded a 7.6 from a fully charged battery and that's just what the EFIS managed to capture at 1 sample per second. Looking again I have found a couple units that claim to work at very low voltages: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC-DC-10A-Buck-Boost-Converter-Step-Up-Down-regulator-Module-for-LED-Driver-US/254169431168 https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Boost-Converter-Adjustable-CC-CV-Step-Up-Down-Power-Supply-Module/124260980594 I'm considering ordering one for further testing. Bob best wishes for a quick recovery but take your time. Get yourself fully in fettle before worrying about anyone else! On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:17 AM Charlie England wrote: > On 9/19/2020 9:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 11:02 PM 9/17/2020, you wrote: > > A couple weeks ago I ordered one of these off eBay: > > https://www.ebay.ca/itm/192243452240 > > DC-DC Converter > 5 Amps > Input 3-35 V > Output 5-40 V > > I'm trying to support ~1 A EFIS during start so I thought 5 A would be > plenty but a closer look at the description says it's good for 3 A with a > maximum of 5 A. Turns out the 3 A is on the input side, not the output > side. With a voltage output set point of 10V and a ~1 A lamp connected, the > lamp browns out (literally) as soon as the input voltage sags below 9V. A > long way from the 7V minimum I was hoping for. I plugged it into a Battery > Analyzer at 1.0 and 0.5 A and momentarily dropped the input voltage to 8V. > Even when voltage is restored it takes several seconds to recover back to > the set voltage with a 1 A load. A 0.5 A load is fine. > > > Good investigative work sir! You're > on the right track. The up-converter > you have is a bit on the light side. > > I'd go for beefy . . . and the up-converter > needs to be characterized in Watts. A converter > that would support a 5A load at 14V would be > rated at 70 W or more. > > The test articles I have on hand are, as I recall, > 150 W devices. I'm hoping to put power to them > to see if I can characterize their dynamic qualities > before I send you one. > > I'm a bit out of pocket right now. Getting ready for > some roto-rooter work on my back . . . got a leg > that occasionally says, "I quit". It would not be > a good thing to be loading a patient and suddenly > find yourself on the ground asking the patient > to help you up! > > Doc says it's a quick fix with excellent > prospects for success but in the interim, > my forays about the shop are limited. The > up converters I have are, I believe, this > one: > > https://tinyurl.com/yxndk24a > > Price is right, size is convenient . . . > and there is little risk for having > one that is too big. Thanks for sharing > your observations. > > > Bob . . . > > These: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-10-12-15-20A-150-250-300-400-1200W-Step-up-Step-down-Buck-Boost/382219150784?hash=item58fe0965c0:g:6OwAAOSwisVZrgue > Claim to be good down to 8.5V input. Various wattage versions available. > > Charlie > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_4819214867954981025_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag From: "meat_ball" cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > Hello Rob, I think you are overthinking it. By all means aim them differently so that you have the best lighting for both landing and taxi, and using the wig wag function is better than not using the wig wag function regardless of which way they are aiming, but why not just wire it exactly as per that drawing? Are you ever going to need to turn off just one light? > Well, I thought of that as well, and thanks for the response! I am quite sensitive, because of my real job, to people blinding each other during night taxi ops. I feel its quite unneighborly and dont want to be in that position. Great point though...Ill have to think on it a bit more. Perhaps Im still overthinking it, but in either case, Id like to know if it would be possible to do what Im asking. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498436#498436 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:33 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator sawtooth current generation Thanks for the hints. The voltage stays very constant. No pitot heat or other big consumers, except lights (landing/wigwag, position, strobes). I did some experiments today without the lights for a longer period, and with the fuel pump, and the current is smooth. I have the hall effect sensor between the alternator and the main bus on the B lead, so it should only be measuring the output of the alternator. It really looks like the "culprit" is the lights. I will talk to Paul the Flyleds guy and see if he's seen this. All my lights are Flyleds, but I use Eric's wig-wag controller. It could be totally normal that he grabs a lot of power in a cyclical way which is causing this. Starting to wish I had installed multiple hall sensors, but my system is so simple, I didn't really see a huge advantage. One other thing I see is that when I remove the consumers, and leave just the EFIS, radio, transponder, and pmags, the current from the alternator drops very low, and then the ALT warning light I have wired in there as shown by PlanePower flickers. It's a 12v LED from Fry's. I feel kind of bad that PP sent me a new alternator. I described the problem and they were certain it was a faulty alternator. I guess I should have done more investigation on my own. I can only say good things about their quick response to a problem! Got some rainy days coming up so I might play around with it a bit more before the next flight and report back. Thanks again for the suggestions! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:10 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag Install a separate switch for each red wire. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 09:36 meat_ball wrote: > arjayefem@fastmail.net> > > > cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Hello Rob, I think you are overthinking it. By all means aim them > differently so that you have the best lighting for both landing and taxi, > and using the wig wag function is better than not using the wig wag > function regardless of which way they are aiming, but why not just wire i t > exactly as per that drawing? Are you ever going to need to turn off just > one light? > > > > > Well, I thought of that as well, and thanks for the response! I am quite > sensitive, because of my real job, to people blinding each other during > night taxi ops. I feel it=99s quite unneighborly and don=99t want to be in that > position. Great point though...I=99ll have to think on it a bit mor e. > Perhaps I=99m still overthinking it, but in either case, I=99 d like to know if > it would be possible to do what I=99m asking. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498436#498436 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag Here's figure 5.3, but with the center lights and optional diode removed. I think that's what you're after. 5.2 would give you two landing lights that wig-wag. Not quite the same. [image: image.png] On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:52 AM meat_ball wrote: > arjayefem@fastmail.net> > > Hello all again. > > I want to install AeroLeds Aerosun landing and taxi lights. Two lights > total, one will be oriented for taxi attitude and one slightly higher > orientation for the landing light attitude on my tail dragger. That said, > my thoughts, since these lights have a built in wig-wag function, are to do > just that. However, I cannot figure out how to wire it. > > According to the install guide for the lights, it says to have 2 > switches. One for the landing lights, and one for the wig wag function, > which is fine if you are using both lights as landing lights. Since I want > one light as a landing light and one as a taxi light, but use both for the > wig-wag function, how does that work switch-wise? One switch as > OFF-Taxi-Both, and the other wig-wag? There isn't enough information to > know if when the wig-wag is "ON" the other switch is bypassed? Am I > thinking along the right lines? Better way to do this? > > Any help? I've attached the install manual wiring diagram... > > Thanks so much! > > Rob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498434#498434 > > > Attachments: > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screenshot_2020_09_19_0100_0003_01_2120_aerosun_installation_revb_pdf_166.png > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Getting the numbers . . . > >The image in his VAF thread shows V & I ranges; V variation is ~.3V; >I is ~0--~10A. > >The only 'device' I can think of that might cycle like that, at that >wattage level, would be a heater circuit that had a controller >capable of ramping power up/down in response to temp changes. > >Oh...Pitot heat! Dynon and probably others now have temp controllers >for their pitot heat. And the current is about right. > >Charlie Aha! yeah . . . I'm betting it's pretty simple. It's unfortunate that the condition created so much work . . . especially doing 'swap-tronics'. I've always taught that one should KNOW what needs to be removed before picking up any wrenches. Sometimes getting the numbers can be an exercise . . . worked an intermittent in the tail de-ice system on a Beechjet that had grounded a revenue generating airplane for over a month. Seems the problem only manifested after 15 or 20 minutes at altitude. A LOT of fuel and hours were consumed before I was asked to join the search. We needed to take measurements back in the 'hell hole' just above the baggage compartment and outside the pressure vessel. Tried to capture the glitch with my laptop DAS strapped down to the floor of the baggage. compartment. It takes quite awhile and lots of gas to get to 41,000 feet . . . but about 12 minutes after leveling off, the system glitched and we hoped to 'catch it' on the DAS. No joy . . . the heads on the lap-top's hard- drive wouldn't 'fly' at 41K feet! That was long before solid state hard drives. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RK371_Deice_A.JPG http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RK371_Deice_B.JPG http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RK371_Deice_C.JPG http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/RK371_Deice_D.JPG Plan B: I built a breakout box that would let me bring the sample leads out to a ribbon cable routed through the baggage compartment door gasket, taped to the fuselage and into the cabin through the cabin door gasket. Had to put an x-ticket on the airplane. I could sit in the cabin and watch the system parameters. On flight #2, the system 'glitched' again and the DAS was in my lap. Knew exactly which system wire to scope out. Found a pushed back pin in a pressure bulkhead connector that would de-mate as the wire bundle contracted in the cold air. Sometimes the simplest things can be exceedingly expensive to find . . . in this instance it was tens of killobux! But in this case, as in virtually all others, known good numbers are the key solving the most intractable problems. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob 2 LEDs and 1 mini relay 1 LED needs power from always hot bus about 4 feet away from LED, there's another wire within inches 1 LED about 4 feet away from main bus, other power sources within inches mini relay needs power from a specific wire that's passing right by the relay The LEDs and mini relay are very low power, for robustness of wire will use 20 or 22, 1/2 or 1 amp should be fine. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498444#498444 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:12 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag From: "rparigoris" Hi Rob I just did exactly what you want. I used 3 switches. I checked with AeroLED and you can't hurt anything no matter how many switches you have on at once. Just Wig Wag will Wig Wag. Landing on and Wig Wag will Wig Wag. Taxi on and Wig Wag on will Wig Wag. Both Landing and Taxi on and Wig Wag on will Wig Wag. Note when turning on Wig Wag both LEDs will light together for a short time at the same time. I have a an Aerosun Landing and Microsun Taxi. I'm using 7 1/2 amp fuse for Wig Wag, 4 amp Aerosun and 3 amp for Microsun. I have mine located within a few inches of each other. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498445#498445 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:36 PM PST US From: David Carter Subject: AeroElectric-List: S701-1 master relay wiring? The attached picture is as received from B&C. According to the enclosed wiring instructions / picture, it appears to be wired backwards. The jumper wire is on the wrong side, and the diode appears to be backwards. Anyone else seen this? I'll put it on the test bench & verify the connections before I install it. -- --- David Carter david@carter.net ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:21 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag From: "meat_ball" Dave Saylor wrote: > Here's figure 5.3, but with the center lights and optional diode removed. I think that's what you're after. > > > 5.2 would give you two landing lights that wig-wag. Not quite the same. > > Much obliged, Dave! I didnt think to use that diagram because it had too many lights on it...haha. I need to think out of the box I guess. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498448#498448 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:28 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag From: "meat_ball" rparigoris wrote: > Hi Rob I just did exactly what you want. I used 3 switches. I checked with AeroLED and you can't hurt anything no matter how many switches you have on at once. Just Wig Wag will Wig Wag. Landing on and Wig Wag will Wig Wag. Taxi on and Wig Wag on will Wig Wag. Both Landing and Taxi on and Wig Wag on will Wig Wag. Note when turning on Wig Wag both LEDs will light together for a short time at the same time. I have a an Aerosun Landing and Microsun Taxi. I'm using 7 1/2 amp fuse for Wig Wag, 4 amp Aerosun and 3 amp for Microsun. I have mine located within a few inches of each other. Ron P. Sound good Ron! Thanks so much. Thats the info I was looking for. Since thats the circuitry for the wig-wag, I suppose it wouldnt be difficult to combine the landing and taxi circuits onto one double throw switch...you agree? Im trying to minimize my panel layout... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498449#498449 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:22 PM PST US From: Kent or Jackie Ashton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S701-1 master relay wiring? The contactor can work in either direction so each picture is wired correctly. For the second pic, from the battery would be on the right and master switch on the left. I will be embarrassed if Bob says otherwise. :-) The diode works so that when the the master switch is turned off, the coil current collapses creating a surge but the surge cannot return to arc the master switch contacts. It can only go towards the battery which does not care. -Kent > On Sep 19, 2020, at 3:36 PM, David Carter wrote: > > The attached picture is as received from B&C. According to the enclosed wiring instructions / picture, it appears to be wired backwards. The jumper wire is on the wrong side, and the diode appears to be backwards. Anyone else seen this? I'll put it on the test bench & verify the connections before I install it. > > > -- > --- > David Carter > david@carter.net ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:03 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Need small physical size fuse 1/2 amp On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 2:01 PM rparigoris wrote: > rparigor@hotmail.com> > > Hi Bob > > 2 LEDs and 1 mini relay > > 1 LED needs power from always hot bus about 4 feet away from LED, there's > another wire within inches > > 1 LED about 4 feet away from main bus, other power sources within inches > > mini relay needs power from a specific wire that's passing right by the > relay > > The LEDs and mini relay are very low power, for robustness of wire will > use 20 or 22, 1/2 or 1 amp should be fine. > > Ron P. *With a few inches of feeder, **I'd probably just hook them up to the closest power feeder with same-gauge wire, if available sources are on when the LED or relay needs to be on. With inches of wire in each case, the weight would be barely measurable. Only thing that might give me pause is if the selected power source fed a flight-critical component, and with reasonable wire routing, there'd be little risk, regardless. If an indicator LED shorts, it should 'self fuse' (burn open) almost instantly, if it's current limit resistor allows it. The current limit resistor could be at the power tap, if it uses a separate resistor.I suspect that a mini relay coil would self fuse, as well, but that's a little less certain. You might well be able to use a series resistor at the source as a current limiter for the relay coil, as well.* *Charlie* ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:19 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S701-1 master relay wiring? At 02:36 PM 9/19/2020, you wrote: >The attached picture is as received from >B&C.=C2 According to the enclosed wiring >instructions / picture, it appears to be wired >backwards.=C2 The jumper wire is on the wrong >side, and the diode appears to be >backwards.=C2 Anyone else seen this? I'll put it >on the test bench & verify the connections before I install=C2 it. The contactor IS a symmetrical device. If for mechanical reasons one wished to reverse the input/output functons of the main terminals, you could flip the diode and move the jumper to the other side. But if installation mechanics are no issue then the device is correctly configured as supplied and yes, the illustration describes the ALTERNATE but equally functional condition. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:54 PM PST US From: A RICHARD GOLDMAN Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S701-1 master relay wiring? Dave, Perhaps the picture reflects that the master relay is activated by connectin g the pole to ground not 12v If that were not the case, you would need to turn on the master switch to t hen turn on the master switch. This also prevents the necessity to always have a constant hot wire to the p anel. What could possibly go wrong with that? Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 19, 2020, at 2:36 PM, David Carter wrote: > > The attached picture is as received from B&C. According to the enclosed w iring instructions / picture, it appears to be wired backwards. The jumper w ire is on the wrong side, and the diode appears to be backwards. Anyone els e seen this? I'll put it on the test bench & verify the connections before I install it. > > > -- > --- > David Carter > david@carter.net ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:15 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: S701-1 master relay wiring? From: "user9253" Arc suppression diodes are always wired with the banded end connected to positive. The diagram is correct. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498454#498454 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:22 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag Rob, I did essentially the same thing you describe with a pair of AeroSun lamps. The only difference is that I just turned them both on all of the time. I want to be seen. I really don't care whether my taxi light is on when I am landing. I want *all* of the lights on. Here is my wiring diagram. (The AeroLEDs diagram is included on the lower, left corner of the page.) landing taxi lights.pdf BTW, I think that you will be delighted with how bright these are. I have had multiple people come up to me on the ramp and say stuff like, "Whoa! You are super bright and easy to see!" I never got around to aiming the lights very carefully and they still illuminate the ramp quite well. Cheers, -- Art Z. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:02 AM meat_ball wrote: > arjayefem@fastmail.net> > > Hello all again. > > I want to install AeroLeds Aerosun landing and taxi lights. Two lights > total, one will be oriented for taxi attitude and one slightly higher > orientation for the landing light attitude on my tail dragger. That said, > my thoughts, since these lights have a built in wig-wag function, are to do > just that. However, I cannot figure out how to wire it. > > According to the install guide for the lights, it says to have 2 > switches. One for the landing lights, and one for the wig wag function, > which is fine if you are using both lights as landing lights. Since I want > one light as a landing light and one as a taxi light, but use both for the > wig-wag function, how does that work switch-wise? One switch as > OFF-Taxi-Both, and the other wig-wag? There isn't enough information to > know if when the wig-wag is "ON" the other switch is bypassed? Am I > thinking along the right lines? Better way to do this? > > Any help? I've attached the install manual wiring diagram... -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. -- Lynn Schusterman* ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:09 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Landing and Taxi lights wig wag Rob, That makes perfect sense. For that reason, I have my strobes on a separate switch and when I am taxiing toward someone at night, I turn off my landing/taxi lights (unless I really need them). 99% of my flying is during the day, though, so I just leave them on wig-wag all the time. -- Art Z. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:50 AM meat_ball wrote: > arjayefem@fastmail.net> > > > cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Hello Rob, I think you are overthinking it. By all means aim them > differently so that you have the best lighting for both landing and taxi, > and using the wig wag function is better than not using the wig wag > function regardless of which way they are aiming, but why not just wire i t > exactly as per that drawing? Are you ever going to need to turn off just > one light? > > > > > Well, I thought of that as well, and thanks for the response! I am quite > sensitive, because of my real job, to people blinding each other during > night taxi ops. I feel it=99s quite unneighborly and don=99t want to be in that > position. Great point though...I=99ll have to think on it a bit mor e. > Perhaps I=99m still overthinking it, but in either case, I=99 d like to know if > it would be possible to do what I=99m asking. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498436#498436 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. -- Lynn Schusterman* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.