Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (William Daniell)
2. 04:46 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (William Daniell)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Matthew S. Whiting)
5. 11:59 AM - strobe noise (Bernie Willis)
6. 01:04 PM - Re: strobe noise (user9253)
7. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: strobe noise (Bernie)
8. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: strobe noise (Charlie England)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: strobe noise (user9253)
10. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:57 PM - Re: strobe noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected by ambient temperature.
So if the fuse is in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than if it's
in the cockpit? And likewise shorter in miami than in anchorage?
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 22:56 rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
> rparigor@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi William
> Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a long
> time to melt.
> ATO:
> https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/catalogs/littelfuse_fuseology.pdf
> MIDI:
> https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/automotive-fuses/littelfuse_automotive_bolt_down_fuse_midi_32v.pdf
> MAXI:
> https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/automotive-fuses/littelfuse_maxi_32v_blade_fuses.pdf
> ANL:
> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-a/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL.pdf
>
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498792#498792
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
Joe thanks.
Simple is normally better. And you can easily find a replacement.
I have ato fuses for the rest of the system.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 19:50 user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 500 RV-12s are flying. They all have a 30 amp ATO fuse in series with the
> charging system. The fuse is not time delay.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498787#498787
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
At 09:47 PM 10/12/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hi William
>Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a
>long time to melt.
That's because the ANL is not a fuse, it's
a fault current limiter intended for used
in power distribution systems with
lower-energy protections downstream. I.e.
protection of a long feed to a bus structure.
Same thing with fusible links. These devices
are expected to operate on occurrence of a
hard fault on the distribution system . . .
not on a protected feeder to an appliance.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
As I read it, they were talking about life at overload conditions, not gener
al life. Almost all things have shorter lives at elevated temps though, but
I doubt you will see a significant difference in general fuse life between M
iami and Anchorage. However, if a fuse is located in a hot environment, the
n it does need to be rated properly for the current it needs to carry and no
t carry.
A fuse is a thermal device. All it knows is that it should melt a a certain
temperature. It doesn=99t much matter when you heat it resistively w
ith electric current or heat it with a torch. Heat is heat.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 13, 2020, at 7:48 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected by ambient temperature. S
o if the fuse is in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than if it's in t
he cockpit? And likewise shorter in miami than in anchorage?
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 22:56 rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
om>
>>
>> Hi William
>> Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a long t
ime to melt.
>> ATO: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/catalogs/littelfuse_fu
seology.pdf
>> MIDI: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/auto
motive-fuses/littelfuse_automotive_bolt_down_fuse_midi_32v.pdf
>> MAXI: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/auto
motive-fuses/littelfuse_maxi_32v_blade_fuses.pdf
>> ANL:http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrica
l/Resources/product-datasheets-a/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL.pdf
>>
>> Ron P.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498792#498792
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 5
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I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag landing lights.
I hear no strobe noise with the engine off. However when its running I
get noise from the wing tip strobes, wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the
beacon. Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions. One
issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs to the circuit breakers
powering these lights. But what difference does the engine running make?
Any ideas.
Looking forward to your reply,
Bernie
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise |
When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498802#498802
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise |
Joe,
Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator
grounding.
Thanks
Bernie
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
> When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
> If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
> Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498802#498802
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise |
Might also be useful to 'visualize' the ground paths from the various
appliances back to the bat neg, your audio devices ground paths back to bat
neg, and the ground paths for the regulator & alternator (engine ground
wire) back to bat neg. If any of the noise producers (alt, any 'switcher'
type LED supplies, etc) share a ground path with your audio gear....
Charlie
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 4:07 PM Bernie <arcticarrow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joe,
> Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage
> regulator grounding.
>
> Thanks
> Bernie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
mail.com>
> >
> > When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
> > When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
> > If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
> > Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?
> >
> > --------
> > Joe Gores
>
>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise |
Is the alternator "B" lead of adequate size and are its connections clean and tight?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498806#498806
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
At 06:40 AM 10/13/2020, you wrote:
>Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected
>by ambient temperature.=C2 =C2 So if the fuse is
>in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than
>if it's in the cockpit?=C2 And likewise shorter in miami than in
anchorage?
All protection technologies function
by 'melting' should be de-rated by a
significant factor of it's rated current
to compensate for two effects. One is
ambient temperature . . . just like wire
insulation, elevated ambient depresses
temperature rise headroom. See
https://tinyurl.com/yxdovxhj
The second effect is not so well understood
but it can be equally significant: Any
device that depends on temperature to
melt can be 'hammered' by a series of
transient events that push the fusible
element close to but just short of melting.
Common examples of transient inrush
currents include incandescent landing lights, motors,
heated pitot tubes, etc.
Fuses sized for nominal running currents
would fail inexplicably after many operating
hours. The fuses were 'hammered' over a
series of inrush events that depressed
their T=K*I(squared)R numbers . . .
I forget which supplier document cites
it but at least one manufacturer recommends that
small fuses not be nominally loaded to more than 70
percent of rating. They might need further
de-rating due to elevated ambient temperatures.
Just keep in mind that fuses protect wires.
Wires are sized conservatively for acceptable
temperature rises and voltage drops. A builder
on this forum once raised the question about
wiring the majority of low current feeders
with 18 or 20 AWG wire (I think he got a
really good deal on a big spool of the
stuff) and then protecting all the feeders
at 10A.
Nothing at all wrong with that . . . and
he sure didn't have to fuss over procurement
and circuit sizing.
ANL, MANL, fusible links, and similar
products are already de-rated by 50 percent
or more. An ANL35 will carry 80A indefinitely
at room temperature.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: strobe noise |
At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote:
>
>I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag
>landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.
>However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes,
>wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon.
When you say 'noise', how would you describe
it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes
pitch with engine rpm?
>Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions.
Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the
symptoms you've described.
>One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs
>to the circuit breakers powering these lights.
Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also
and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause.
>But what difference does the engine running make?
I suspect alternator noise which can't happen
if the alternator is not putting out power.
Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator
OFF with the engine still running?
If you shut all the new systems off and bring
them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return
for any combination of functional/non-functional
systems?
What kind of airplane, engine and alternator?
Wired per any of the z-figures?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: In line fuseholder |
>
> All protection technologies THAT function
> by 'melting' should be de-rated by a
> significant factor of it's rated current
> to compensate for two effects:
<snip>
Protection technologies that function
by 'bending' of a bi-metal spring are
not subject to 'hammering' but their
calibration is still influenced by ambient
temperature.
Getting to the original question, elevated
temperature combined with hammering
could appear to shorten the life of
a fuse. When in doubt for fuses ahead
of fire wall, design rules call for
conservative de-rating. If you have
a fuse blowing for non-obvious reasons
after significant service in a high
temperature environment, going up
one step in fuse rating is a good fix
that does not increase risk.
Bob . . .
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