---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/13/20: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (William Daniell) 2. 04:46 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (William Daniell) 3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Matthew S. Whiting) 5. 11:59 AM - strobe noise (Bernie Willis) 6. 01:04 PM - Re: strobe noise (user9253) 7. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: strobe noise (Bernie) 8. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: strobe noise (Charlie England) 9. 02:50 PM - Re: strobe noise (user9253) 10. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 05:57 PM - Re: strobe noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: In line fuseholder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:56 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected by ambient temperature. So if the fuse is in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than if it's in the cockpit? And likewise shorter in miami than in anchorage? William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 22:56 rparigoris wrote: > rparigor@hotmail.com> > > Hi William > Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a long > time to melt. > ATO: > https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/catalogs/littelfuse_fuseology.pdf > MIDI: > https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/automotive-fuses/littelfuse_automotive_bolt_down_fuse_midi_32v.pdf > MAXI: > https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/automotive-fuses/littelfuse_maxi_32v_blade_fuses.pdf > ANL: > http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-a/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL.pdf > > Ron P. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498792#498792 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:35 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder Joe thanks. Simple is normally better. And you can easily find a replacement. I have ato fuses for the rest of the system. William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 19:50 user9253 wrote: > > 500 RV-12s are flying. They all have a 30 amp ATO fuse in series with the > charging system. The fuse is not time delay. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498787#498787 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder At 09:47 PM 10/12/2020, you wrote: > >Hi William >Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a >long time to melt. That's because the ANL is not a fuse, it's a fault current limiter intended for used in power distribution systems with lower-energy protections downstream. I.e. protection of a long feed to a bus structure. Same thing with fusible links. These devices are expected to operate on occurrence of a hard fault on the distribution system . . . not on a protected feeder to an appliance. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:25 AM PST US From: "Matthew S. Whiting" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder As I read it, they were talking about life at overload conditions, not gener al life. Almost all things have shorter lives at elevated temps though, but I doubt you will see a significant difference in general fuse life between M iami and Anchorage. However, if a fuse is located in a hot environment, the n it does need to be rated properly for the current it needs to carry and no t carry. A fuse is a thermal device. All it knows is that it should melt a a certain temperature. It doesn=99t much matter when you heat it resistively w ith electric current or heat it with a torch. Heat is heat. Sent from my iPad > On Oct 13, 2020, at 7:48 AM, William Daniell wrote: > > =EF=BB > Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected by ambient temperature. S o if the fuse is in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than if it's in t he cockpit? And likewise shorter in miami than in anchorage? > > William Daniell > +1 786 878 0246 > >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 22:56 rparigoris wrote: om> >> >> Hi William >> Here's comparison for ATO, MIDI, MAXI and ANL. ANL sure does take a long t ime to melt. >> ATO: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/catalogs/littelfuse_fu seology.pdf >> MIDI: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/auto motive-fuses/littelfuse_automotive_bolt_down_fuse_midi_32v.pdf >> MAXI: https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/auto motive-fuses/littelfuse_maxi_32v_blade_fuses.pdf >> ANL:http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrica l/Resources/product-datasheets-a/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL.pdf >> >> Ron P. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498792#498792 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution >> ========== >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:00 AM PST US From: Bernie Willis Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe noise I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off. However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes, wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon. Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions. One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs to the circuit breakers powering these lights. But what difference does the engine running make? Any ideas. Looking forward to your reply, Bernie ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:24 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: strobe noise From: "user9253" When the engine is off, the battery powers everything. When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything. If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded? Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498802#498802 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:30 PM PST US From: Bernie Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: strobe noise Joe, Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator grounding. Thanks Bernie Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > When the engine is off, the battery powers everything. > When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything. > If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded? > Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers? > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498802#498802 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:46 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: strobe noise Might also be useful to 'visualize' the ground paths from the various appliances back to the bat neg, your audio devices ground paths back to bat neg, and the ground paths for the regulator & alternator (engine ground wire) back to bat neg. If any of the noise producers (alt, any 'switcher' type LED supplies, etc) share a ground path with your audio gear.... Charlie On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 4:07 PM Bernie wrote: > > Joe, > Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage > regulator grounding. > > Thanks > Bernie > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 wrote: > > mail.com> > > > > When the engine is off, the battery powers everything. > > When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything. > > If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded? > > Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers? > > > > -------- > > Joe Gores > > Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:18 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: strobe noise From: "user9253" Is the alternator "B" lead of adequate size and are its connections clean and tight? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498806#498806 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder At 06:40 AM 10/13/2020, you wrote: >Interesting that the ato fuse life is affected >by ambient temperature.=C2 =C2 So if the fuse is >in the engine bay the fuse life is shorter than >if it's in the cockpit?=C2 And likewise shorter in miami than in anchorage? All protection technologies function by 'melting' should be de-rated by a significant factor of it's rated current to compensate for two effects. One is ambient temperature . . . just like wire insulation, elevated ambient depresses temperature rise headroom. See https://tinyurl.com/yxdovxhj The second effect is not so well understood but it can be equally significant: Any device that depends on temperature to melt can be 'hammered' by a series of transient events that push the fusible element close to but just short of melting. Common examples of transient inrush currents include incandescent landing lights, motors, heated pitot tubes, etc. Fuses sized for nominal running currents would fail inexplicably after many operating hours. The fuses were 'hammered' over a series of inrush events that depressed their T=K*I(squared)R numbers . . . I forget which supplier document cites it but at least one manufacturer recommends that small fuses not be nominally loaded to more than 70 percent of rating. They might need further de-rating due to elevated ambient temperatures. Just keep in mind that fuses protect wires. Wires are sized conservatively for acceptable temperature rises and voltage drops. A builder on this forum once raised the question about wiring the majority of low current feeders with 18 or 20 AWG wire (I think he got a really good deal on a big spool of the stuff) and then protecting all the feeders at 10A. Nothing at all wrong with that . . . and he sure didn't have to fuss over procurement and circuit sizing. ANL, MANL, fusible links, and similar products are already de-rated by 50 percent or more. An ANL35 will carry 80A indefinitely at room temperature. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe noise At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote: > >I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag >landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off. >However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes, >wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon. When you say 'noise', how would you describe it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes pitch with engine rpm? >Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions. Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the symptoms you've described. >One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs >to the circuit breakers powering these lights. Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause. >But what difference does the engine running make? I suspect alternator noise which can't happen if the alternator is not putting out power. Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator OFF with the engine still running? If you shut all the new systems off and bring them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return for any combination of functional/non-functional systems? What kind of airplane, engine and alternator? Wired per any of the z-figures? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: In line fuseholder > > All protection technologies THAT function > by 'melting' should be de-rated by a > significant factor of it's rated current > to compensate for two effects: Protection technologies that function by 'bending' of a bi-metal spring are not subject to 'hammering' but their calibration is still influenced by ambient temperature. Getting to the original question, elevated temperature combined with hammering could appear to shorten the life of a fuse. When in doubt for fuses ahead of fire wall, design rules call for conservative de-rating. If you have a fuse blowing for non-obvious reasons after significant service in a high temperature environment, going up one step in fuse rating is a good fix that does not increase risk. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.