Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:47 AM - How to do your term paper? (AmandaBrooks)
2. 04:53 AM - Positively Negative (-) ? (supik)
3. 06:50 AM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (Kelly McMullen)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: ADS-B and Transponder antenna... (Eric Page)
5. 09:09 AM - Re: Z102 w/AEC9005 (Eric Page)
6. 02:16 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 04:32 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (user9253)
8. 04:34 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (johnbright)
9. 07:55 PM - Wire Harness Fabrication (bcone1381)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How to do your term paper? |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Positively Negative (-) ? |
After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/
I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back (battery) of my RV10
to the front. I missed the point where I had to calculate the total cable length
for the intermittent starting process..
This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed.
-2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the engine block
to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only airframe negative is grounded
at the firewall.
My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush and continuous
to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it without too much of voltage
drop -thus hurting the starter's performance?
aircraft: RV10
starter: B&C
engine: IO540
battery location: standard behind baggage bulkhead
Thank you
--------
Igor
RV10 in progress
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Positively Negative (-) ? |
You will be fine. You could have dispensed with the ground wire. My
RV-10 is grounded per the plans, at the battery mount. Use the Vans
supplied #2 positive wire to firewall mounted starter relay. Have been
flying 3.5 years on the original Odyssey 925L battery, no problems.
Kelly
On 10/25/2020 4:48 AM, supik wrote:
>
> After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/
>
> I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back (battery) of my
RV10 to the front. I missed the point where I had to calculate the total cable
length for the intermittent starting process..
>
> This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed.
> -2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the engine block
to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only airframe negative is
grounded at the firewall.
>
> My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush and continuous
to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it without too much of
voltage drop -thus hurting the starter's performance?
>
> aircraft: RV10
> starter: B&C
> engine: IO540
> battery location: standard behind baggage bulkhead
>
> Thank you
>
> --------
> Igor
>
> RV10 in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498946#498946
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: ADS-B and Transponder antenna... |
There's an RF Engineer who works for Tektronix, Alan Wolke, who has a very good
YouTube channel. Among other things, he's recently been posting a series of
videos on how to use the nanoVNA for various measurements.
Note that the following playlist does not list the videos in the order they were
posted, but I would recommend at least watching #312 and #313 before any others.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ZSD4omd_AylEyNCQYR3RcEb0olukPEJ
Read this topic online here:
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z102 w/AEC9005 |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> [SNIP]
> If the ship is fitted with an auxiliary alternator
> of lesser size, then design goals and plan-B
> calculations will determine what actions are
> needed after the warning . . . and time-to-
> lights-out are KNOWN.
>
> If an aux alternator can carry 100% of endurance
> loads, then the flight can be continued to airport
> of original destination. If it carries less than 100%
> of endurance loads, then energy stored in the
> battery can be drawn down with an alternator
> assist. Endurance in this instance is predictable.
>
> If no aux alternator, then energy bucket is not so
> big. But it can still be diligently allocated for
> predictable endurance.
>
> Splitting energy storage between two batteries
> only doubles maintenance labor and complicates
> endurance management when loads assigned to
> each battery are not identical.
I'm sold. A system with a second alternator capable of supporting endurance loads
does seem a more useful and less maintenance-intensive solution than carrying
around a second battery.
Given the minimal equipment in my aircraft, supporting even normal flight loads
with an auxiliary alternator should be trivial. In addition to that configuration
getting me to my original destination, it gets me there with a charged battery,
so I'm not stuck there, AOG.
I suspect that the factory-supplied 65A alternator could be replaced with a smaller,
lighter unit with half the capacity, still have headroom to spare, and buy
back some of the weight penalty of the second alternator.
Thanks, Bob. I'll probably be back for more when I get to the load analysis.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Positively Negative (-) ? |
At 06:48 AM 10/25/2020, you wrote:
>
>After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/
>
>I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back
>(battery) of my RV10 to the front. I missed the point where I had to
>calculate the total cable length for the intermittent starting process..
Igor, please don't do this . . .
There is no foundation in physics or practice that
justifies this.
Yes, the proposed 'upgrades' have some 'advantage'
but too small to observe and difficult to measure.
See Figure Z-15 for grounding architectures
that have successful track records going back
nearly a century.
>This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed.
>-2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the
>engine block to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only
>airframe negative is grounded at the firewall.
>
>My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush
>and continuous to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it
>without too much of voltage drop -thus hurting the starter's performance?
"Too much voltage drop" is un-quantified.
Are you having problems cranking the engine?
"Hurting starter performance" is also
un-quantified. No starter EVER expects
to see 12v in any vehicle. It's a given
that internal resistance of the battery
added to cranking path resistance will
deliver 9-10 volts to the starter. Modern
starters not withstanding deliver much
better performance than the legacy
tractor starters fitted to most of
the Lycomings in the years before
B&C and they got the engine running
un spite of engine driven fuel pumps,
manual primer pumps, magnetos with
impulse couplers, etc. In fact, if
was skilled at getting the
variables corraled, the engine could
be started by hand.
The quantum jump in modern starter performance
pretty much eliminates starters as
a root cause for poor cranking. Adding
wires in the manner suggested in the article
is at best, a band-aid on some more
fundamental problem.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Positively Negative (-) ? |
Nobody knows how much current a starter motor will draw, not even the
manufacturer, because it depends on many variables such as engine
condition, engine size, temperature, wire size, battery type and size and etc.
--------
Joe Gores
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Positively Negative (-) ? |
Don't forget to read the description paragraph for Z-15 in the Aeroelectric Connection book. Page Z-4 at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/AppZ_12A3.pdf
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Wire Harness Fabrication |
A lot of theory and educational design topics get discussed and promoted here.
System Design and wire harness fabrication and installation are two very different
arenas in EAB aircraft.
I've seen some elegantly installed electrical systems. The wire bundles look like
a highway system with roads branching off left and right as they pass each
company. They are very orderly and neat.
The techniques used that might make wire these kind bundles inspire confidence
is of interest to me. I've youtube'd a few things. Rope being used to plan
the route of a harness from components, to a main trunk, to components. I've
seen wiring diagrams drawn onto 8' long butcher paper that is attached to 4x8
sheets of peg board and the harness is build on to it.
Are there some outstanding resources available to help take the theory of aircraft
electrical systems and help a tenderfoot look like he veteran as he applis
AC43.13 without redoing it three times?
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
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