---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/25/20: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:47 AM - How to do your term paper? (AmandaBrooks) 2. 04:53 AM - Positively Negative (-) ? (supik) 3. 06:50 AM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (Kelly McMullen) 4. 08:50 AM - Re: ADS-B and Transponder antenna... (Eric Page) 5. 09:09 AM - Re: Z102 w/AEC9005 (Eric Page) 6. 02:16 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 04:32 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (user9253) 8. 04:34 PM - Re: Positively Negative (-) ? (johnbright) 9. 07:55 PM - Wire Harness Fabrication (bcone1381) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:56 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to do your term paper? From: "AmandaBrooks" Have found yourself stuck with college assignments? 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Just click here and stop having a headache every time you get a boring task from your Prof. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498945#498945 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:29 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Positively Negative (-) ? From: "supik" After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/ I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back (battery) of my RV10 to the front. I missed the point where I had to calculate the total cable length for the intermittent starting process.. This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed. -2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the engine block to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only airframe negative is grounded at the firewall. My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush and continuous to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it without too much of voltage drop -thus hurting the starter's performance? aircraft: RV10 starter: B&C engine: IO540 battery location: standard behind baggage bulkhead Thank you -------- Igor RV10 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498946#498946 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Positively Negative (-) ? From: Kelly McMullen You will be fine. You could have dispensed with the ground wire. My RV-10 is grounded per the plans, at the battery mount. Use the Vans supplied #2 positive wire to firewall mounted starter relay. Have been flying 3.5 years on the original Odyssey 925L battery, no problems. Kelly On 10/25/2020 4:48 AM, supik wrote: > > After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/ > > I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back (battery) of my RV10 to the front. I missed the point where I had to calculate the total cable length for the intermittent starting process.. > > This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed. > -2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the engine block to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only airframe negative is grounded at the firewall. > > My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush and continuous to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it without too much of voltage drop -thus hurting the starter's performance? > > aircraft: RV10 > starter: B&C > engine: IO540 > battery location: standard behind baggage bulkhead > > Thank you > > -------- > Igor > > RV10 in progress > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498946#498946 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ADS-B and Transponder antenna... From: "Eric Page" There's an RF Engineer who works for Tektronix, Alan Wolke, who has a very good YouTube channel. Among other things, he's recently been posting a series of videos on how to use the nanoVNA for various measurements. Note that the following playlist does not list the videos in the order they were posted, but I would recommend at least watching #312 and #313 before any others. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ZSD4omd_AylEyNCQYR3RcEb0olukPEJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498948#498948 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z102 w/AEC9005 From: "Eric Page" nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > [SNIP] > If the ship is fitted with an auxiliary alternator > of lesser size, then design goals and plan-B > calculations will determine what actions are > needed after the warning . . . and time-to- > lights-out are KNOWN. > > If an aux alternator can carry 100% of endurance > loads, then the flight can be continued to airport > of original destination. If it carries less than 100% > of endurance loads, then energy stored in the > battery can be drawn down with an alternator > assist. Endurance in this instance is predictable. > > If no aux alternator, then energy bucket is not so > big. But it can still be diligently allocated for > predictable endurance. > > Splitting energy storage between two batteries > only doubles maintenance labor and complicates > endurance management when loads assigned to > each battery are not identical. I'm sold. A system with a second alternator capable of supporting endurance loads does seem a more useful and less maintenance-intensive solution than carrying around a second battery. Given the minimal equipment in my aircraft, supporting even normal flight loads with an auxiliary alternator should be trivial. In addition to that configuration getting me to my original destination, it gets me there with a charged battery, so I'm not stuck there, AOG. I suspect that the factory-supplied 65A alternator could be replaced with a smaller, lighter unit with half the capacity, still have headroom to spare, and buy back some of the weight penalty of the second alternator. Thanks, Bob. I'll probably be back for more when I get to the load analysis. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498949#498949 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Positively Negative (-) ? At 06:48 AM 10/25/2020, you wrote: > >After reading this article: https://www.kitplanes.com/positively-negative/ > >I ran a positive and a negative 2awg conductor from the back >(battery) of my RV10 to the front. I missed the point where I had to >calculate the total cable length for the intermittent starting process.. Igor, please don't do this . . . There is no foundation in physics or practice that justifies this. Yes, the proposed 'upgrades' have some 'advantage' but too small to observe and difficult to measure. See Figure Z-15 for grounding architectures that have successful track records going back nearly a century. >This leaves me with approx. 28ft total 2awg wire length installed. >-2awg (+) wire from battery to starter and 2awg (-) wire from the >engine block to the firewall and from there to the battery. The only >airframe negative is grounded at the firewall. > >My question is: how much current does the B&C starter draw inrush >and continuous to determine whether the 28ft 2awg wire can handle it >without too much of voltage drop -thus hurting the starter's performance? "Too much voltage drop" is un-quantified. Are you having problems cranking the engine? "Hurting starter performance" is also un-quantified. No starter EVER expects to see 12v in any vehicle. It's a given that internal resistance of the battery added to cranking path resistance will deliver 9-10 volts to the starter. Modern starters not withstanding deliver much better performance than the legacy tractor starters fitted to most of the Lycomings in the years before B&C and they got the engine running un spite of engine driven fuel pumps, manual primer pumps, magnetos with impulse couplers, etc. In fact, if was skilled at getting the variables corraled, the engine could be started by hand. The quantum jump in modern starter performance pretty much eliminates starters as a root cause for poor cranking. Adding wires in the manner suggested in the article is at best, a band-aid on some more fundamental problem. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Positively Negative (-) ? From: "user9253" Nobody knows how much current a starter motor will draw, not even the manufacturer, because it depends on many variables such as engine condition, engine size, temperature, wire size, battery type and size and etc. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498952#498952 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:05 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Positively Negative (-) ? From: "johnbright" Don't forget to read the description paragraph for Z-15 in the Aeroelectric Connection book. Page Z-4 at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/AppZ_12A3.pdf -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498953#498953 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:36 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Harness Fabrication From: "bcone1381" A lot of theory and educational design topics get discussed and promoted here. System Design and wire harness fabrication and installation are two very different arenas in EAB aircraft. I've seen some elegantly installed electrical systems. The wire bundles look like a highway system with roads branching off left and right as they pass each company. They are very orderly and neat. The techniques used that might make wire these kind bundles inspire confidence is of interest to me. I've youtube'd a few things. Rope being used to plan the route of a harness from components, to a main trunk, to components. I've seen wiring diagrams drawn onto 8' long butcher paper that is attached to 4x8 sheets of peg board and the harness is build on to it. Are there some outstanding resources available to help take the theory of aircraft electrical systems and help a tenderfoot look like he veteran as he applis AC43.13 without redoing it three times? -------- Brooks Cone Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498954#498954 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.