Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:08 AM - What sort of screws would it be a good idea for you? (kaiwaters)
2. 08:44 AM - SMOKED RELAY (user9253)
3. 09:22 AM - Re: SMOKED RELAY (Charlie England)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: SMOKED RELAY (user9253)
5. 11:58 AM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Marvin McGraw)
6. 05:05 PM - Re: SMOKED RELAY (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 05:45 PM - Lead Acid Batteries ()
8. 05:52 PM - Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? (Bill Hunter)
9. 06:29 PM - Re: Lead Acid Batteries (Matthew S. Whiting)
10. 07:04 PM - Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? (Sebastien)
11. 07:20 PM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (Marvin McGraw)
12. 07:40 PM - Re: Lead Acid Batteries (Kelly McMullen)
13. 08:03 PM - Re: Lead Acid Batteries (Charlie England)
14. 08:04 PM - Re: Lead Acid Batteries (Matthew S. Whiting)
15. 08:23 PM - Re: Lead Acid Batteries (Kelly McMullen)
16. 08:51 PM - car battery vs. deep cycle (Paul Millner)
17. 09:34 PM - Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? (johnbright)
18. 10:23 PM - Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS (johnbright)
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Subject: | What sort of screws would it be a good idea for you? |
Screws are the most flexible latches utilized in carpentry. Wood screws are helpful
for rapidly assembling dances and clipping structures, joining bureau and
furniture parts, mounting equipment and trim, and considerably more. Screws structure
solid associations between parts produced using strong wood, compressed
wood, and other sheet merchandise without the requirement for cut joinery.
From heads to drives, focuses on strings, platings to coatings, our creator gives
you an exhaustive instruction in the choices accessible in the realm of present-day
screws. Online Builders merchants (https://lakerbfs.co.uk/) provide
you different types of screws. Picking the correct wood screw used to be basic
pick a zinc or metal screw with the correct size and length for the current task.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499008#499008
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I applied 12 volts to the coil of an automotive type relay to test it. Smoke
came out. I had forgotten that the relay contained an arc suppression diode.
As luck would have it, I connected the 12 volts to the coil with polarity
reversed. I can not buy an exact replacement part number CB1-D-12V
because it is obsolete. I am having trouble finding a compatible replacement
relay online. There are relays available with an internal resistor instead of
a
diode. Is a resistor good enough? It is impossible to locate a diode
elsewhere in the circuit because it is sealed.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499010#499010
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Subject: | Re: SMOKED RELAY |
On 10/29/2020 10:37 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> I applied 12 volts to the coil of an automotive type relay to test it. Smoke
> came out. I had forgotten that the relay contained an arc suppression diode.
> As luck would have it, I connected the 12 volts to the coil with polarity
> reversed. I can not buy an exact replacement part number CB1-D-12V
> because it is obsolete. I am having trouble finding a compatible replacement
> relay online. There are relays available with an internal resistor instead of
a
> diode. Is a resistor good enough? It is impossible to locate a diode
> elsewhere in the circuit because it is sealed.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Is it a typical 'cube' relay, as shown in this search?
https://www.google.com/search?q=CB1-D-12V&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&oq=CB1-D-12V&aqs=chrome..69i57.3184157j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Does it still function (coil & contacts still good)? If so, if you can't
find a plug&play replacement you can simply splice a diode into the
wiring harness from the coil positive to coil negative wires, anywhere
in the circuit that's convenient.
The basic 'cube' style relay shows up in dozens of listings on ebay &
Amazon.
If your controlling switch is rated for 10A or so, the diode probably
won't make any difference in switch life (it should handle the
insignificant arc energy).
Charlie
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Subject: | Re: SMOKED RELAY |
Thanks Charlie. It looks like part number PB682-ND will replace the relay.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499013#499013
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Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
>
> > Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for powering
the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an emergency aux
feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
>
> It doesn't really matter much since all busses
> are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
> bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
> fine. No more busses needed
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
If I understand this correctly, you are saying:
(1) do not add the engine bus
(2) put the engine EI/EFI components on either battery bus
(3) the emergency procedure would be to close the cross-tie
Am I missing anything?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499014#499014
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Subject: | Re: SMOKED RELAY |
>I can not buy an exact replacement part number CB1-D-12V
>because it is obsolete. I am having trouble finding a compatible replacement
>relay online.
It was probably discontinued for the risk
you've already experienced.
> There are relays available with an internal resistor instead of a
>diode. Is a resistor good enough?
Yes . . . and the resistor is not polarity
sensitive and will work just fine.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Lead Acid Batteries |
Hi All,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries.
First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete
floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks.is that
actually true or have I just been "snipe hunting" all of these years
(decades)?
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the
way down to zero.or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times.it will
no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery
become junk just because you "left the lights on" and drained it down to
zero?
Third question is what is the difference between a "car battery" and a
"marine battery/ deep cycle battery"?
Thanks everyone!!!
Bill
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Subject: | Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? |
Does anybody recognize this nav light assembly?
It currently has incandescent light bulbs for the position lights however I
would really like to change the light bulbs to LED so I was wondering if
anybody has gone down this route before and would recommend what LED light
bulbs to use?
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Lead Acid Batteries |
Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten
its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the batt
ery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really sho
rten its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mo
stly water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail@gmail.com wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Hi All,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well.
>
> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries
>
> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concret
e floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks
is that actually true or have I just been =9Csnipe hunting=9D
all of these years (decades)?
>
> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the
way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a few time
sit will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why wo
uld a good battery become junk just because you =9Cleft the lights on
=9D and drained it down to zero?
>
> Third question is what is the difference between a =9Ccar battery
=9D and a =9Cmarine battery/ deep cycle battery=9D?
>
> Thanks everyone!!!
>
> Bill
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Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? |
That looks like a Whelen rather than a Grimes. As for replacement, there's
all sorts of half assed solutions but the proven ones are the Aveo:
https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/aveoultraembedded.php?clickkey=5325
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:00 PM Bill Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Does anybody recognize this nav light assembly?
>
> It currently has incandescent light bulbs for the position lights however
> I would really like to change the light bulbs to LED so I was wondering if
> anybody has gone down this route before and would recommend what LED light
> bulbs to use?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Hunter
>
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Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Marvin McGraw wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> > At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
> >
> > > Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for powering
the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an emergency aux
feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
> >
> > It doesn't really matter much since all busses
> > are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
> > bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
> > fine. No more busses needed
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
> If I understand this correctly, you are saying:
> (1) do not add the engine bus
> (2) put the engine EI/EFI components on either battery bus
> (3) the emergency procedure would be to close the cross-tie
>
> Am I missing anything?
Correction:
(2) put the engine EI/EFI components on either the main bus or the aux bus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499028#499028
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Subject: | Re: Lead Acid Batteries |
It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of
hard rubber. Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it
was no longer true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of
charge. Discharged it can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it
is somewhere near -70F. When I had plane in those temps, I made sure
battery was removed before reaching -40.
On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
>
> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely
> shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed
> when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze
> which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split
> and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once
> it thaws.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>
>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries
>>
>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the
>> concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood
>> blocksis that actually true or have I just been snipe hunting all
>> of these years (decades)?
>>
>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all
>> the way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a few
>> timesit will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why
>> would a good battery become junk just because you left the lights on
>> and drained it down to zero?
>>
>> Third question is what is the difference between a car battery and a
>> marine battery/ deep cycle battery?
>>
>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>
>> Bill
>>
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Subject: | Re: Lead Acid Batteries |
On 10/29/2020 8:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
>
> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely
> shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed
> when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze
> which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often
> split and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak
> out once it thaws.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>
>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries
>>
>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the
>> concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on
>> wood blocksis that actually true or have I just been snipe hunting
>> all of these years (decades)?
>>
>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge
>> all the way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a
>> few timesit will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so
>> why would a good battery become junk just because you left the
>> lights on and drained it down to zero?
>>
>> Third question is what is the difference between a car battery and
>> a marine battery/ deep cycle battery?
>>
>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>
>> Bill
>>
To the last question: deep cycle have thicker plates, allowing deeper
discharge without damaging the cells. Lots of docs available; just
google 'starting battery vs deep cycle'.
Charlie
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Subject: | Re: Lead Acid Batteries |
I dont think any wives alive today were also around when batteries were last made
with hard rubber cases that contained carbon and were slightly porous.
Yes, a fully charged battery is good to somewhere around -80 F, but a fully discharged
battery will freeze around 20 F. I always keep mine inside in the winter
or on a battery maintainer. And inside is best if you may need to install
the battery and use it as it will crank much better while warm than when sitting
outside at -40.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of hard rubber.
Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it was no longer
true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of charge. Discharged it
can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it is somewhere near -70F. When
I had plane in those temps, I made sure battery was removed before reaching -40.
>
>> On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
>> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten
its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery
is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten
its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly water
once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
>> Matt
>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>>
>>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries
>>>
>>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete
floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocksis that actually
true or have I just been snipe hunting all of these years (decades)?
>>>
>>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the
way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a few timesit will no
longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become
junk just because you left the lights on and drained it down to zero?
>>>
>>> Third question is what is the difference between a car battery and a marine
battery/ deep cycle battery?
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Lead Acid Batteries |
Hmmm, my wife is older than I am(and a pilot), and I worked on hard
rubber case batteries in both aircraft and autos. In fact battery
recycling shops were common that melted the lead after cleaning of old
acid, made new plates, and installed in the rubber cases. Of course many
are now super fund sites. IIRC the Diehard series was one of the first
polyethylene or propylene, back in the late 60's.
Having an aircraft on open ramp in Fairbanks in the 70s, with no power
at tiedowns, had to pull battery, take home and occasionally charge.
Kelly
On 10/29/2020 8:00 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>
> I dont think any wives alive today were also around when batteries were last
made with hard rubber cases that contained carbon and were slightly porous.
>
> Yes, a fully charged battery is good to somewhere around -80 F, but a fully discharged
battery will freeze around 20 F. I always keep mine inside in the winter
or on a battery maintainer. And inside is best if you may need to install
the battery and use it as it will crank much better while warm than when sitting
outside at -40.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of hard rubber.
Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it was no longer
true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of charge. Discharged it
can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it is somewhere near -70F. When
I had plane in those temps, I made sure battery was removed before reaching
-40.
>>
>>> On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>>> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
>>> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten
its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery
is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten
its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly
water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
>>> Matt
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>>>
>>>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries
>>>>
>>>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete
floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocksis that
actually true or have I just been snipe hunting all of these years (decades)?
>>>>
>>>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the
way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a few timesit will no
longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become
junk just because you left the lights on and drained it down to zero?
>>>>
>>>> Third question is what is the difference between a car battery and a marine
battery/ deep cycle battery?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | car battery vs. deep cycle |
On 10/29/2020 7:32 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> the difference between a car battery and a marine battery/ deep
> cycle battery?
In order to deep cycle a battery repeatedly and not destroy it, two
things are different: the metallurgy of the lead pastes used to make it,
and the structure of the plates themselves... the metallurgy is more
forgiving of sulfation; the plate structure is stiffer... better able to
withstand sustained discharges (which might warp lesser plates/grids);
but, the stiffer grids occupy space that COULD be occupied with more
lead paste... hence reducing battery capacity, compared to
non-deep-cycle batteries.
Paul
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Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Nav Light? |
cluros(at)gmail.com wrote:
> ... the proven ones are the Aveo:
>
> https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/aveoultraembedded.php?clickkey=5325 (https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/aveoultraembedded.php?clickkey=5325)
Is AeroLeds not a good product?
Anyway, I think the OP is looking to replace the incandescent bulbs only. Maybe these: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/wingtipLED11-14885.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw0On8BRAgEiwAincsHC9ZYPASI-k4eNx2i1boOo1Hc2-cd1XW_G_facZVW2stvy_zPUj7ehoCN60QAvD_BwE
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499034#499034
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Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Marvin McGraw wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> > At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
> >
> > > Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for powering
the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an emergency aux
feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
> >
> > It doesn't really matter much since all busses
> > are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
> > bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
> > fine. No more busses needed
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
> If I understand this correctly, you are saying:
> (1) do not add the engine bus
> (2) put the engine EI/EFI components on either the main bus or the aux bus
> (3) the emergency procedure would be to close the cross-tie
>
> Am I missing anything?
Hi Marvin,
Have you seen Z101? Bob N started developing it just after the OP's (Jeff Parker)
post and Jeff has moved to a schematic using Z101 as a template. It's installed
in his RV-8 project and has been powered up but not flying yet.
In case you don't have a link to the Z-dwgs they are at http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
I don't know if this info helps you. I know you have Z14 flying with dual SDS EFI/I.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499035#499035
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