Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:54 AM - gps antenna under glassfibre? (Rowland Carson)
2. 06:39 AM - Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? (user9253)
3. 08:16 AM - Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? (Charlie England)
4. 08:43 AM - Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? (Rowland Carson)
5. 09:28 AM - Essayhelp (FionaSheyk)
6. 03:08 PM - Re: Dissimiliar metals (S Remerez)
7. 04:12 PM - Re: Dissimiliar metals (user9253)
8. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (Matthew S. Whiting)
9. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (Charlie England)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (Matthew S. Whiting)
11. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (S Remerez)
12. 06:50 PM - Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:17 PM - Re: Dissimiliar metals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:26 PM - Re: Re: Dissimiliar metals (Bob Verwey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | gps antenna under glassfibre? |
In my Europa build, until now Ive been planning to provide my Trig TT21 transponder
with a GPS position signal from my Garrecht TRX-2000 traffic monitor which
has a built-in GPS receiver.
However, with the CAA offering rebates on conspicuity equipment purchases, I am
considering a Trig TN72 with a TA50 antenna. This would allow the TT21 to show
a SIL of 1 (rather than 0 with the TRX-2000) and thus be more visible to other
traffic.
However, with a lot of my installation already done (or at least frozen) I am not sure where I can put the TA50 antenna. On top of the instrument module I have 3 GPS antennas already (for Garmin GPSmap 295, TRX-2000 & Dynon D2 - see http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/im_gps_antennae.php). I have separated those antennae by the 6 inches that I found as a recommendation on a Garmin marine website.
I am wondering if it would be OK to put the TA50 inside the roof where I have plenty
of space, and whether that would reduce the GPS signal too much. The Europa
fuselage is made from inner and outer layers (apparently mostly double) of
pre-preg with a thin layer of brown foam between.
Any advice appreciated, or suggestions for a better place to ask this question.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
Either the instrument panel or the roof should work OK.
I would put the new antenna on the instrument panel panel to make installation
easier.
6 inches apart is perfect, but 4 inches apart is good enough.
Jim Weir recommends RG-174 cable.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499288#499288
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| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
On 11/7/2020 7:48 AM, Rowland Carson wrote:
>
> In my Europa build, until now Ive been planning to provide my Trig TT21 transponder
with a GPS position signal from my Garrecht TRX-2000 traffic monitor which
has a built-in GPS receiver.
>
> However, with the CAA offering rebates on conspicuity equipment purchases, I
am considering a Trig TN72 with a TA50 antenna. This would allow the TT21 to show
a SIL of 1 (rather than 0 with the TRX-2000) and thus be more visible to other
traffic.
>
> However, with a lot of my installation already done (or at least frozen) I am not sure where I can put the TA50 antenna. On top of the instrument module I have 3 GPS antennas already (for Garmin GPSmap 295, TRX-2000 & Dynon D2 - see http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/im_gps_antennae.php). I have separated those antennae by the 6 inches that I found as a recommendation on a Garmin marine website.
>
> I am wondering if it would be OK to put the TA50 inside the roof where I have
plenty of space, and whether that would reduce the GPS signal too much. The Europa
fuselage is made from inner and outer layers (apparently mostly double)
of pre-preg with a thin layer of brown foam between.
>
> Any advice appreciated, or suggestions for a better place to ask this question.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
As a data point, many RV-x builders mount a small metal shelf on the hot
side of the firewall, just under the 'glass cowl. As long as there isn't
a lot of carbon in the structure, or a lot of metal in the paint, it
should work fine inside the structure. Can you push the fuselage
outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with the antenna puck
outside, then inside the fuselage?
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
On 2020-11-07, at 16:12, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you push the fuselage outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with
the antenna puck outside, then inside the fuselage?
Charlie - thanks for pointing out the really obvious thought that I had totally
missed! As I said, Im still considering purchase, so I dont have the actual hardware,
but I can easily do a comparison using the GPS diagnostic app(s) on my
phone.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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If you are looking for the best custom papers you should visit https://ewriters.pro.
Here you find a great team, excellent writers and very professional support.
If you order your student papers here you need to worry by nothing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499291#499291
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Bob,
Do you think that coating these dissimilar metal connections with dielectri
c grease will reduce corrosion down to a bare minimum?=C2- I've used this
grease on connections, but they haven't had the long term torch test yet.
I also know that wire nuts filled with dielectric grease from the factory a
re used to make connections underground.=C2- In general, I believe any me
tal can be corrosion free if coated with dielectric grease, since it stops
penetration of humidity and water if applied correctly.
What do you think of dielectric grease for this application?
Simon
November 6, 2020 3:52:16 PM CET "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com> wrote:At 10:23 PM 11/5/2020, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow@gmail.co
m>
Garmin provides stainless hardware for grounding studs for some of itselect
ronics.=C2- Would stainless be a problem for attaching thegrounding fores
t (brass/copper) to an aluminum airframe?
Bernie Willis
=C2- Generally no problem.
=C2- Dissimilar metals have three fundamental characteristics
=C2- that manifest in not-so-obvious thermoelectric qualities.
=C2- See:https://tinyurl.com/pmare2c
=C2- For the purposes of this discussion, we're interested
=C2- in the potential for extra ordinary corrosion in the
=C2- interface of the two materials . . . corrosion that
=C2- degrades electrical conduction and perhaps promotes
=C2- structural destruction.
=C2- This risk moves forward only if there is water (or
=C2- other ionic fluid) present. The cited Seebeck effect
=C2- manifests as a tiny battery created by molecular
=C2- differences in two metals. Not a problem in a dry
=C2- condition but when conductive moisture is present,
=C2- electrons will flow through the liquid between
=C2- the two battery poles. Those electrons MUST come
=C2- from the more negative of the two poles. I.e.
=C2- that battery electrode 'rusts' due to the flow
=C2- of current external to the electrodes.
=C2- This gives rise to the sacred concept of gas-tight
=C2- connections. If the void between the potentially
=C2- antagonistic metals is reduce to zero, then
=C2- moisture and oxygen necessary to promote
=C2- atmospheric rust -AND- electrolytic rust cannot
=C2- enter and the joint is secure. The outside
=C2- surfaces might show signs of corrosion but
=C2- the parts that matter are secure in their
=C2- assembly.
=C2- Examples of these phenomenon are
=C2- illustrated by the accelerated destruction
=C2- of metals in a marine environment. I have
=C2- visited this example of extreme corrosion
=C2- on Flamenco Beach, Culebra Island, PR
https://tinyurl.com/y33t3a62
=C2- Massive volumes of metal have be completely
=C2- dissolved away into the surf.
=C2- The short answer is: Stainless hardware does
=C2- not offer risk if (1) it's not routinely
=C2- wet and (2) the conducting surface interfaces
=C2- are adequately compressed to achieve gas-tight
=C2- joints.
=C2- Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will not
hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal contact.
The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from getting
in.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Now you have. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/
dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=160
4796349&sr=8-3
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
l.com>
>
> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will no
t
> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal conta
ct.
> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from
getting in.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
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>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in an
a/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors without
bridging between the terminals.
How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive grease
inside the shell?
Charlie
On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> Now you have.
> https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
> <https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors
>> will not
>> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
>> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal
>> contact.
>> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air
>> from getting in.
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>> =================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
I use dielectric grease in my auto and motorcycle connectors. It works grea
t for corrosion protection and no danger of shorting one circuit to another.
I only posted the link because someone said they had never seen a conductive
grease. There are greases that conduct electricity and that conduct heat. A
nd probably some that do both.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in an a
/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors without bridg
ing between the terminals.
>
> How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive grease insid
e the shell?
>
> Charlie
>
>> On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>> Now you have. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grea
se/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=
1604796349&sr=8-3
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
ail.com>
>>>
>>> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will n
ot
>>> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
>>> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal con
tact.
>>> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air fr
om getting in.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>>> ========================
==========================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
You wouldn't have to ensure. Diaelectric grease is an insulator.=C2- At R
F frequencies, it has an impedance of 75 degrees.=C2- That's why they use
it in RF connectors - to extend the 75 Ohms through like the cable's diele
ctric.=C2- Here is a paragraph out of Wiki for "diaelectric grease."
As a sealant around electrical contacts[edit]
Silicone greases are electrically=C2-insulating=C2-and are often applie
d to=C2-electrical connectors, particularly those containing rubber gaske
ts, as a means of sealing and protecting the connector. In this context the
y are often referred to as=C2-dielectric=C2-grease.[8][9]
A common use of this type is in the high-voltage connection associated with
gasoline-engine spark plugs, where grease is applied to the rubber boot of
the plug wire to help it slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug, to
seal the rubber boot, and to prevent the rubber's adhesion to the ceramic.
Such greases are formulated to withstand the high temperature generally ass
ociated with the areas in which spark plugs are located, and can be applied
to contacts as well (because the contact pressure is sufficient to penetra
te the grease film). Doing so on such high-pressure contact surfaces betwee
n different metals has the further advantage of sealing the contact area ag
ainst electrolytes that might cause rapid deterioration of the metals by=C2
-galvanic corrosion.[10]
Silicone grease can decompose to form an insulating layer at or next to swi
tch contacts that experience=C2-arcing, and contamination can cause the c
ontacts to prematurely fail.
November 8, 2020 2:32:23 AM CET Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrot
e:
There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in
an a/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors wit
hout bridging between the terminals.
How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive gr
ease inside the shell?
Charlie
On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
Now you have. =C2-https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Car
bon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=cond
uctive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> w
rote:
=EF=BB--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fr
ansew@gmail.com>
I have never seen conductive grease. =C2-Putting grease on
connectors will not
hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a
little messy.
A good connection will force the grease out, allowing
metal to metal contact.
The grease that is forced out will resist water and high
humidity air from getting in.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
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| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
>>Rowland
>As a data point, many RV-x builders mount a small metal shelf on the
>hot side of the firewall, just under the 'glass cowl. As long as
>there isn't a lot of carbon in the structure, or a lot of metal in
>the paint, it should work fine inside the structure. Can you push
>the fuselage outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with the
>antenna puck outside, then inside the fuselage?
>
>Charlie
Bingo . . . when in doubt . . . measure!
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
At 05:02 PM 11/7/2020, you wrote:
Bob,
Do you think that coating these dissimilar metal connections with
dielectric grease will reduce corrosion down to a bare minimum? I've
used this grease on connections, but they haven't had the long term
torch test yet. I also know that wire nuts filled with dielectric
grease from the factory are used to make connections underground. In
general, I believe any metal can be corrosion free if coated with
dielectric grease, since it stops penetration of humidity and water
if applied correctly.
What do you think of dielectric grease for this application?
Simon
Never seen it done in aircraft. By definition.
a properly assembled, gas-tight joint would have
no voids at-risk for contamination. Further,
any grease (a viscous liquid) in the joint
would be squeezed out as the joint was made
up.
Most of the dielectric greases I've encountered
are a silicon based chemistry . . . the stuff
'migrates'. Put a little dab onto a flat surface
and set it aside for a couple months . . . it will
become much larger in diameter with time.
I suspect quality is fundamental to the 'water
displacement' claim for such products. Certainly
useful if there are gaps that water can enter . . .
like ignition components on your car that
should have been replaced some time ago. I
used to wash down my car engines with high
pressure, soap water with some frequency.
If it was reluctant to start up and drive
out of the car wash, STUFF GOT REPLACED.
Hawker/Beech management expressed an interest
in several 'joint enhancement' nostrums. I was
tasked with researching this product.
https://tinyurl.com/y6m9xsov
One of several avenues of inquiry I made
was to application engineers at TycoAmp,
Molex and several others. Paraphrasing
their responses, they generally ran along this
line:
"Say what?!?! . . . you make us jump through
the myriad of hoops proposed by DO-160, Mil-
Std-460/461, MIL-STD-810, ad nauseam and you
have the temerity to ask if painting our
products with this 'stuff' would enhance their
performance?
The general consensus was: "If you have a NEW
requirement, then articulate it in your next
purchase order and we'll do our best to meet
that requirement. But be forewarned, any expenses
incurred by us to meet this NEW requirement will
be passed along in the request for quotation."
So this begs the questions:
(a) Are there any perceived inadequacies in
the demonstrated service life of a component?
(b) Are those inadequacies determined to be . . .
(1) the byproduct of poor design or
manufacturing?
(2) inattention to installation details?
(c) Why was the potential for those inadequacies
not addressed in the initial procurement
specification for the product?
The fact that things like Stabilant 22 exist
suggests one of two conditions:
(a) The product's design goals were deficient.
(b) The product has been in service longer
than the expected design goals.
The short answer is:
Be wary of any suggestion that some goop,
goo or magic elixir will enhance the performance
of ANY product. I can confidently assert that
99% of those claims are not founded in demonstrable
practice/physics.
The remaining 1% are represented by products/
companies that are out of business.
After months of not terribly intense
investigation the short answer was:
The techniques defined by our process
specifications have a demonstrated track
record. Further, there are no
DEFICIENCIES for established design
goals addressed by legacy process/procurement
specifications.
As a minor aside: Any suggestion that installation
techs be asked to carry a bottle of Stabilant
22 in their toolbox was greeted with a stare
that could be lethal.
So . . . do it right the first time and you
won't have to do it over in the future. This
isn't rocket science. It's a shop-practice
refined and defined by 100 years of experience
in the field.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
At 06:47 PM 11/7/2020, you wrote:
>Now you
>have.
><https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3>https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
Th8i stuff is scary . . . if it's a 'mobile' as
silicone based products cite in earlier post . . .
well . . . before using any such thing on your
project's electrical parts you need to determine:
(a) was my initial section of part/process in error?
(b) is there a demonstrable deficiency in the
performance of installed parts?
The study of history is not terribly revered
amongst members of the general public. I
suggest it is of PRIME importance in the
practice of our craft.
If there is a perceived value for applying some
new or novel product to your project, you would
do well to:
(1) understand the physics behind any shortcoming
in proposed material/processes followed up with:
(2) "Gee, did I neglect a the wisdom offered by
folks who have already been-there-done-that?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Hey Joe...what about Copper Slip?
On Sun, 08 Nov 2020, 02:17 user9253, <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will
> not
> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal
> contact.
> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from
> getting in.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>
>
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