Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Jeff Parker)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Steve Kelly)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Art Zemon)
4. 06:55 AM - Intumescent caulk (GLEN MATEJCEK)
5. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Charlie England)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (rparigoris)
7. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Charlie England)
8. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Ernest Christley)
9. 09:54 AM - 'caulking' pass-thrus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:46 AM - Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (rparigoris)
11. 11:50 AM - Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (johnbright)
12. 12:16 PM - Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus (Jeff Luckey)
13. 01:51 PM - Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus (Charlie England)
14. 02:11 PM - Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... (pestar)
15. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? (Charlie England)
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
I=99m using fire barrier 2000 by 3M on my RV8 project. https://www.3m
.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Silicone-Sealant-
2000-/?N=5002385+3293123941&rt=rud
Here is a good discussion on fire wall protection. https://vansairforce.net
/community/showthread.php?t=47587&highlight=Fire+barrier+2000
Jeff Parker
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 23:58, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
otmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall. I'
m using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets and su
pplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill with
wires I will fill with Silicone:
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
> Ron P.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Try google for Fire Barrier 2000. Like that it comes in grey.
Steve
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 6:41 AM Jeff Parker <foghorn757@gmail.com> wrote:
> I=99m using fire barrier 2000 by 3M on my RV8 project.
> https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-
Silicone-Sealant-2000-/?N=5002385+3293123941&rt=rud
>
> Here is a good discussion on fire wall protection.
> https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=47587&highlight=F
ire+barrier+2000
>
> Jeff Parker
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 23:58, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> rparigor@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall.
> I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets a
nd
> supplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill
> with wires I will fill with Silicone:
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
I used 3M Red Fire Barrier Sealant Caulk. Available in the aviation aisle
of your local hardware store such as
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-fl-oz-Red-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-Caulk-CP
-25WB-Plus-CP25WB-10/100166701
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:21 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> For actual fireproofing, better choice is intumescent caulk. More
>> expensive, but swells with heat to close space left by melting wite, etc
,
>> and is good to around 2k degrees.
>>
>> Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15997>
>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 10:58 PM, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
.com>
>>>
>>> Hi Group
>>> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall.
I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets an
d supplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill
with wires I will fill with Silicone:
>>> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
>>> Ron P.
>>>
>>> --
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. --
Lynn Schusterman*
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| Subject: | Intumescent caulk |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF?
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@hotmail.com>
*snip*Hi Charlie
*Thank you for reply. Can you recommend a specific caulk and perhaps where
to buy
*it? Thx. Ron P.
One can spend a small fortune buying a small quantity from aviation supply
houses, or one can get a standard caulking gun tube full of it in the
aviation sealants aisle of Lowes for about $7, IIRC.
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 11:57 PM rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
> rparigor@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Charlie
> Thank you for reply. Can you recommend a specific caulk and perhaps where
> to buy it? Thx. Ron P.
You've probably seen the other replies; 3M makes two kinds I've used. The
red stuff is readily available at big box stores; it's latex based. Has a
kinda gritty texture, but the red color might be its biggest drawback. The
gray stuff is silicone based and has been a bit harder to find, but IIRC,
Aircraft Spruce stocks it. Be aware that the gray is 'better', but more
expensive and being silicone, I found it impossible to get more than a
couple of closely spaced uses out of that expensive caulk tube before the
entire tube cured into a big fireproof cylinder. Playing with 'the google'
this morning brought up some other options that might be better/easier to
use for our purposes. If you can find it in 'toothpaste tube' size, it'll
likely be more than enough for one project. I had to buy gun sized tubes,
and 95%+ cured in the tube and was wasted.
One thing to think about is that you're never really finished with a
homebuilt. If you caulk the passthrough full, it'll be a real nightmare
when (not if) you need to make changes. My plan for my passthroughs is to
squirt out 1/4"-3/8" dia 'sticks' of the caulk onto a plastic sheet and let
them cure, then stuff the empty spaces in the pass-through with them.
Actual sealing will be with firesleeve over the stub of the passthrough,
extending a bit onto the wire bundle, and held in place with stainless hose
clamps, as has been described here and elsewhere. YMMV, etc. :-)
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clickkey=18880
Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex products
that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the temperature rating
of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499720#499720
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
On 12/18/2020 9:25 AM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clickkey=18880
> Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex products
that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the temperature
rating of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Hi Ron,
That product has been touted by many on various aviation forums as being
intumescent, and I've always assumed that it was. But I just spent about
half an hour prowling the 3M sites and can find no reference to
'intumescent' in their docs. Nor can I find any direct reference to
temperature rating; only the 'implication' of 2000 degree rating in the
name. The docs refer to various ASTM testing methods, which you can read
for about $50 each if you're willing to pay.
On the other hand, this stuff:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-CP-25WB-/?N=5002385+3293123924&rt=rud
does have the magic word in its description, and mentions a 1000 degree
temp rating.
3M Fire Barrier Watertight Silicone
3000 WT Sealant
is also listed by 3M as being intumescent.
I've attached a pdf of 3M fire block products. Hope it will make it
through; its 1.5Mbytes.
Charlie
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
If an engine fire has burned through a 1/4" bead of 700F silicone caulk th
at has a stainless cover, it has already burned off the head of every alumi
num rivet and turned every bit of epoxy around it to ash.=C2- I don't see
the advantage beyond what is cheap and readily available.
On Friday, December 18, 2020, 11:46:40 AM EST, Charlie England <ceengla
nd7@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/18/2020 9:25 AM, rparigoris wrote:
om>
>
> Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clic
kkey=18880
> Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex
products that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the tempe
rature rating of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Hi Ron,
That product has been touted by many on various aviation forums as being
intumescent, and I've always assumed that it was. But I just spent about
half an hour prowling the 3M sites and can find no reference to
'intumescent' in their docs. Nor can I find any direct reference to
temperature rating; only the 'implication' of 2000 degree rating in the
name. The docs refer to various ASTM testing methods, which you can read
for about $50 each if you're willing to pay.
On the other hand, this stuff:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Se
alant-CP-25WB-/?N=5002385+3293123924&rt=rud
does have the magic word in its description, and mentions a 1000 degree
temp rating.
3M=84=A2 Fire Barrier Watertight Silicone
3000 WT Sealant
is also listed by 3M as being intumescent.
I've attached a pdf of 3M fire block products. Hope it will make it
through; its 1.5Mbytes.
Charlie
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| Subject: | 'caulking' pass-thrus |
More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
were never used on the finished product but it was
rare.
Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
secured with a string tie before a second stainless
clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
close contact with wires.
This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
of new wires.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Hi Charlie
That's the stuff I've been using, I called 3M because it's hard to figure out all
details from documentation, the maximum service temperature is 302F, it has
a fire rating of 4 hours. 4 hours means nothing to me so I had representative
try to explain. I asked if that's 4 hours with a propane torch on top of it,
and oxyaceletene torch on top of it or the neighbor burning garbage 2 miles away.
The best I could get is it isn't meant for an aeroplane, so I posed how about
a car, how would it hold up to a gas or oil fire on a car. Well their product
isn't meant for a car either. It's meant for sealing to sheet rock and then
it will hold up for 4 hours:
Firestop tested up to 4 hours in
accordance with ASTM E 814 (UL
1479) & CAN/ULC S115
Fire Resistance tested for construction
joint systems in accordance with
ASTM E 1966 (UL 2079)
Class 25 sealant, per ASTM C
That's all I got, doesn't mean much to me. I have some Red Dow 736 meant for 500
and short 600F and tested it with a torch on it along with Fire Barrier 2000,
didn't see much difference, perhaps the gray was slightly slightly better but
they both go away. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499725#499725
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Posts 38 thru 42 this VAF thread "Firewall sealant and Fire Safety" could be interesting:
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=72087
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499726#499726
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| Subject: | Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus |
I don't understand the reference...
"This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors."
But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
Also, what's a 30 Series airplane?=C2- The picture looks like a Productio
n aircraft but I can't identify it.=C2- (I'm gonna guess... Cessna 210 ??
?)
-Jeff
On Friday, December 18, 2020, 10:11:39 AM PST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
were never used on the finished product but it was
rare.
Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
secured with a string tie before a second stainless
clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
close contact with wires.
This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
of new wires.
=C2- Bob . . .
=C2- Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If blackboxes
=C2- survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
=C2- out of that stuff?"
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| Subject: | Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus |
I think Bob is saying that the firesleeve/hose clamp method (which I
also referenced) was tested in a production aircraft facility
(Raytheon-Beech) using a blowtorch type device, to FAA qualification
required limits, and I suspect that Jack Thurman ran the testing division.
On 12/18/2020 2:11 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> I don't understand the reference...
>
> "This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
> Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
> house of horrors."
>
> But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
>
>
> Also, what's a 30 Series airplane? The picture looks like a
> Production aircraft but I can't identify it. (I'm gonna guess...
> Cessna 210 ???)
>
>
> -Jeff
>
>
> On Friday, December 18, 2020, 10:11:39 AM PST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>
> More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
> Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
> any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
> lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
> were never used on the finished product but it was
> rare.
>
> Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
> as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
> 'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
> was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
> onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
> did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
> 'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
> secured with a string tie before a second stainless
> clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
> close contact with wires.
>
> This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
> Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
> house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
> EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
> of new wires.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
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| Subject: | Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
Buy your CP2102 from Alibaba, USD $7.00 at my door in New Zealand, for my Stratux
power supply I use a UBEC DC/DC Step-Down (Buck) Converter - 5V @ 3A output
USD$9-95 (postage not included). Fits in the Statux case and is powered of my
aircraft 12v. No need to worry about battery packs.
To make more room for the CP2102 in the Stratux case I removed the pins and directly
soldered the RS232 wires to the CP2102 which is connected to my MGL EFIS
Also purchased my Stratux USB GPS off Alibaba, another USD$12.00 delivered. Broke
my bank :)
Modified the CP2102 as per the previous included thread instructions.
All works a dream for ADSB-IN which in NZ is 1090 only.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499729#499729
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
On 12/18/2020 1:41 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie
> That's the stuff I've been using, I called 3M because it's hard to figure out
all details from documentation, the maximum service temperature is 302F, it has
a fire rating of 4 hours. 4 hours means nothing to me so I had representative
try to explain. I asked if that's 4 hours with a propane torch on top of it,
and oxyaceletene torch on top of it or the neighbor burning garbage 2 miles
away. The best I could get is it isn't meant for an aeroplane, so I posed how
about a car, how would it hold up to a gas or oil fire on a car. Well their product
isn't meant for a car either. It's meant for sealing to sheet rock and then
it will hold up for 4 hours:
> Firestop tested up to 4 hours in
> accordance with ASTM E 814 (UL
> 1479) & CAN/ULC S115
> Fire Resistance tested for construction
> joint systems in accordance with
> ASTM E 1966 (UL 2079)
> Class 25 sealant, per ASTM C
> That's all I got, doesn't mean much to me. I have some Red Dow 736 meant for
500 and short 600F and tested it with a torch on it along with Fire Barrier 2000,
didn't see much difference, perhaps the gray was slightly slightly better
but they both go away. Ron P.
Which one? It seems there are multiple threads going, and some of us are
using email (I am, anyway) and others are using the web based list, so I
don't know which product you're talking about. The F-B-2000? If so, it
would seem that you're probably right, since they're so vague with info.
They do claim 1000F+ for the CP 25 WP+ intumescent caulk. Spec sheet
attached, showing that the intumescent action happens at 1000 degrees F.
For simple seam sealing, if we're realistic, just about anything would
be fine, like Ernest said. The latex based intumescent stuff (CP25WP+)
is much cheaper, and ideal for filling empty space around wires, etc in
holes, but even that is probably overkill if you use the firesleeve/hose
clamp method Bob linked.
Charlie
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