Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:10 AM - Re: automatic switch (Finn Lassen)
2. 12:03 PM - Re: automatic switch (Charlie England)
3. 12:15 PM - Manual utility/generator switch (Paul Millner)
4. 02:15 PM - Re: automatic switch (Earl Schroeder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Once I made a relatively low cost manual transfer switch using a 100 amp
panel.
In the two top places I mounted two 2-pole 100A breakers side by side
with a small alum bar and two screws connecting the two breaker handles.
One of the holes on the alum bar was actually slotted so you could turn
off both breakers if wanted. But the bar made it impossible to turn on
both breakers at the same time. One of the breakers was connected to the
12 KWh generator, the other to a breaker (strictly speaking not needed
if lugs available after main breaker) in the main panel. That 100 amp
panel became the sub panel for essential stuff: lights, one A/C and
computers.
Sure was a lot cheaper than the $500 to $1,000 manual transfer switches
available at the time. I think the cost of the two 100A breakers and
panel was less than $100.
Finn
On 12/24/2020 9:01 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> The essential loads that I need to run are boiler, unit heater, well
> pump and refrigerator/freezer and hangar door. Given that this is at
> least 90% of the total amperage and a good percentage of the circuits,
> I believe powering the whole building is what makes sense. And I
> definitely agree that the system must not allow for feedback to the
> grid through operator error.
>
> Ken
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 4:41 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
> wrote:
>
> At 06:27 AM 12/24/2020, you wrote:
>> <yellowduckduo@gmail.com <mailto:yellowduckduo@gmail.com>>
>>
>> While these manual schemes work well somebody should mention that
>> they are illegal almost everywhere due to the risk of back
>> feeding power to the utility and electrocuting a lineman by mis
>> handling the main breaker. It happens which is why a double
>> throw main breaker arrangement is mandated.
>
> Yup, that's why there is a check-list for
> transitions between mains and generator . . .
> but failure to disconnect ac mains would
> result in immediate operation of the generator's
> breakers.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Yep; some breaker panel mfgrs make optional slides to do exactly that.
In our area, about 10 miles out of the biggest town in the state, we
tend to lose power if it rains anywhere in the county. I went 'full
auto' because the spousal unit wasn't going to learn how to the
multi-step switching required to keep our air conditioner functional on
the generator; also wanted the switch to happen if we were out of town
for a few days. Didn't want to lose freezer/fridge stuff.
I also spent a long time waiting for craigslist deals on the generator &
automatic transfer switch/subpanel (as mentioned, I'm way too cheap to
buy new).
Charlie
On 12/25/2020 10:58 AM, Finn Lassen wrote:
> Once I made a relatively low cost manual transfer switch using a 100
> amp panel.
> In the two top places I mounted two 2-pole 100A breakers side by side
> with a small alum bar and two screws connecting the two breaker handles.
> One of the holes on the alum bar was actually slotted so you could
> turn off both breakers if wanted. But the bar made it impossible to
> turn on both breakers at the same time. One of the breakers was
> connected to the 12 KWh generator, the other to a breaker (strictly
> speaking not needed if lugs available after main breaker) in the main
> panel. That 100 amp panel became the sub panel for essential stuff:
> lights, one A/C and computers.
>
> Sure was a lot cheaper than the $500 to $1,000 manual transfer
> switches available at the time. I think the cost of the two 100A
> breakers and panel was less than $100.
>
> Finn
>
> On 12/24/2020 9:01 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>> The essential loads that I need to run are boiler, unit heater, well
>> pump and refrigerator/freezer and hangar door. Given that this is at
>> least 90% of the total amperage and a good percentage of the
>> circuits, I believe powering the whole building is what makes sense.
>> And I definitely agree that the system must not allow for feedback to
>> the grid through operator error.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 4:41 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
>> <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> wrote:
>>
>> At 06:27 AM 12/24/2020, you wrote:
>>> <yellowduckduo@gmail.com <mailto:yellowduckduo@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> While these manual schemes work well somebody should mention
>>> that they are illegal almost everywhere due to the risk of back
>>> feeding power to the utility and electrocuting a lineman by mis
>>> handling the main breaker. It happens which is why a double
>>> throw main breaker arrangement is mandated.
>>
>> Yup, that's why there is a check-list for
>> transitions between mains and generator . . .
>> but failure to disconnect ac mains would
>> result in immediate operation of the generator's
>> breakers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Manual utility/generator switch |
I bought the ReliAnce panel, 200/100 (or smaller at your choice) with interl
ock. About $300. It=99s a repurposed Siemens panel, UL and all.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Our utility in S Indiana =98grounds=99 all wiring before any wor
k is done. Although our solar system has the required disconnects etc they r
eally are not needed. It does increase the down time since all the grounds n
eed to be removed before applying power, it will save lives. This method pr
obably is growing and will be used everywhere soon. [I am a retired electri
cian]
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Yep; some breaker panel mfgrs make optional slides to do exactly that. In o
ur area, about 10 miles out of the biggest town in the state, we tend to lo
se power if it rains anywhere in the county. I went 'full auto' because the s
pousal unit wasn't going to learn how to the multi-step switching required t
o keep our air conditioner functional on the generator; also wanted the swit
ch to happen if we were out of town for a few days. Didn't want to lose free
zer/fridge stuff.
>
> I also spent a long time waiting for craigslist deals on the generator & a
utomatic transfer switch/subpanel (as mentioned, I'm way too cheap to buy ne
w).
>
> Charlie
>
>> On 12/25/2020 10:58 AM, Finn Lassen wrote:
>> Once I made a relatively low cost manual transfer switch using a 100 amp p
anel.
>> In the two top places I mounted two 2-pole 100A breakers side by side wit
h a small alum bar and two screws connecting the two breaker handles.
>> One of the holes on the alum bar was actually slotted so you could turn o
ff both breakers if wanted. But the bar made it impossible to turn on both b
reakers at the same time. One of the breakers was connected to the 12 KWh ge
nerator, the other to a breaker (strictly speaking not needed if lugs availa
ble after main breaker) in the main panel. That 100 amp panel became the sub
panel for essential stuff: lights, one A/C and computers.
>>
>> Sure was a lot cheaper than the $500 to $1,000 manual transfer switches a
vailable at the time. I think the cost of the two 100A breakers and panel wa
s less than $100.
>>
>> Finn
>>
>> On 12/24/2020 9:01 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>>> The essential loads that I need to run are boiler, unit heater, well pum
p and refrigerator/freezer and hangar door. Given that this is at least 90% o
f the total amperage and a good percentage of the circuits, I believe poweri
ng the whole building is what makes sense. And I definitely agree that the s
ystem must not allow for feedback to the grid through operator error.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 4:41 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@ae
roelectric.com> wrote:
>>>> At 06:27 AM 12/24/2020, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> While these manual schemes work well somebody should mention that they
are illegal almost everywhere due to the risk of back feeding power to the u
tility and electrocuting a lineman by mis handling the main breaker.=C3=82 I
t happens which is why a double throw main breaker arrangement is mandated.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, that's why there is a check-list for
>>>> transitions between mains and generator . . .
>>>> but failure to disconnect ac mains would
>>>> result in immediate operation of the generator's
>>>> breakers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>
>>>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>>>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>>>> out of that stuff?"
>>>>
>>
>>
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