Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Battery Charger (dj_theis)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Battery Charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Charlie England)
5. 10:32 AM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Jeff Luckey)
6. 11:00 AM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Charlie England)
8. 12:46 PM - Re: Battery Charger (Pete)
9. 01:05 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Jeff Luckey)
10. 01:25 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: Battery Charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 03:19 PM - Two charging devices running in parallel? (rparigoris)
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Monarch EE Anti-Plugging Field Accelerating? (rparigoris)
14. 04:11 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (WILLIAM BOOTH)
15. 06:11 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Dick Tasker)
16. 07:25 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (user9253)
17. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Charlie England)
18. 08:59 PM - Re: Two charging devices running in parallel? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 09:36 PM - Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) (Rick Beebe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
Ive had good luck with Schumacher . A little more expensive than what can be bought
at HF but Ive had good performance for planes boats and autos.
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Chargers-Schumacher/s?keywords=Battery+Chargers&rh=n%3A15707061%2Cp_89%3ASchumacher&c=ts&ts_id=15707061
The brand, battery tender comes to mind and I might actually have a small one of
those around that seems to behave well. I look for a switch on the charger
to allow for selection-between AGM and wet lead acid.
I think Bob ran some tests on lessor brands with good results And he has a great
explanation in his book on chargers that hes expanded on in this forum, if you
do a search.
Dan Theis.
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500104#500104
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
At 01:37 AM 1/10/2021, you wrote:
>
>Old battery charger stopped working. What is the current
>recommendation for a charger and battery minder?
How big a charger? My local Walmart stocks a range
of Schumacher chargers as well as the now legendary
Battery Tender Jr.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
>Hey guys I am way in over my head on this forum
>but a nice man from BandC suggested I
>try. Attached is the electrical diagram of my
>recently purchased RV10. It was completed in
>2009 and the avionics was switched to a Garmin
>900x a year later. My issue is it safe and
>operationally sound. It is an X design, if that is familiar.
That's a REALLY busy electrical system . . .
>Apparently the builder added a bus tie in order
>to bypass a diode bridge rectifier type because
>the draw to recharge the Aux Battery, 2 wheel
>chair batteries 7Ah 12v wired in series reduced
>the essential bus voltage to 12.6v. This bus tie
>when on,boosts both busses back to 13.6v. Is this how it was meant to be
run?
The thought processes behind this architecture cannot
be know to us unless it's documented somewhere. The
system depicted has features that are
>Additionally with both alternators on, the
>displayed alternator amperage seems to be all
>over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when the
>airplane has most accessories off. Feeding both
>alternators into a single =9Cbus bar=9D seems to cause issues
and is that safe?
Why run both at the same time?
>Therefore it's been recommended that I swap out
>the Stby Alt for a 60A PP alternator and just
>use it as the primary power source. My
>preference would be going to a Z plan where each
>alternator powers its own bus but I've been
>advised against that. The good news is my A&P
>figured out the shunt had not been changed per
>Garmin install instructions, a
><x-apple-data-detectors://0>100A 50 milivolts currently on order.
Aside from the things you've described here has
this system been flying 'successfully' since 2009?
Unless the seller offered the equivalent of a pilots
operating handbook for the system, you're kinda
stuck with second guessing the builder's original
design goals.
The builder spent a lot of time providing a good
drawing of the wiring which is good. But the arrangement
makes it difficult to sort out exactly how this
system is supposed to function. Wiring for
bridge rectifier is curious . . . it shows all
four terminals tied together which negates its
function as a diode array.
Changing this system to conform to a Z-figure
would be a BIG task. What are your plans/expectations
for getting the airplane flyable?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
>
> Hey guys I am way in over my head on this forum but a nice man from BandC
> suggested I try. Attached is the electrical diagram of my recently
> purchased RV10. It was completed in 2009 and the avionics was switched to
a
> Garmin 900x a year later. My issue is it safe and operationally sound. I
t
> is an X design, if that is familiar.
>
> snipped
>
> Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator amperage
> seems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when the airplane ha
s
> most accessories off. Feeding both alternators into a single =C3=A2=82
=AC=C5=93bus bar=C3=A2=82=AC
> seems to cause issues and is that safe?
>
>
> snipped
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I couldn't see the diagram, but the 'all over the place' alternator
amperage suggests issues with the shunt's wiring. My (purchased) RV6 had
inline fuse holders for glass fuses to 'protect' the sense lines (protect
in quotes because the fuses were somewhere near the middle of the wire
runs). The flaky contact between the cheezy fuse holders and the fuses
caused amperage readings to be... 'all over the place'. Just one place to
look, to isolate your random current readings.
Charlie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
In the email I received there was no drawing attached.=C2- Could someone
re-post the drawing file?=C2- Or send it to me directly.
In fact, I only see Bob's & Charlie's replies, not the original post.=C2-
That seems weird....
-Jeff
On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 06:59:46 AM PST, Charlie England <ceenglan
d7@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
Hey guys I am way in over myhead on this forum but a nice man from BandC su
ggested I try.=C2-Attached is the electrical diagram of my recently purch
ased RV10. It wascompleted in 2009 and the avionics was switched to a Garmi
n 900x a yearlater.=C2- My issue is it safe and operationally sound. It i
s an Xdesign, if that is familiar.
snipped
Additionally withboth alternators on, the displayed alternator amperage see
ms to be allover the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when the airplane has most
accessories off. Feeding both alternators into a single =C3=A2=82=AC=C5
=93bus bar=C3=A2=82=AC seems to cause issues and is that safe?
=C2- =C2-snipped
=C2- Bob . . .
I couldn't see the diagram, but the 'all over the place' alternator amperag
e suggests issues with the shunt's wiring. My (purchased) RV6=C2-had inli
ne fuse holders for glass fuses to 'protect' the sense lines (protect in qu
otes because the fuses were somewhere near the middle of the wire runs). Th
e flaky contact between the cheezy fuse holders and the fuses caused ampera
ge readings to be... 'all over the place'. Just one place to look, to isola
te your random current readings.
Charlie
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
At 12:27 PM 1/10/2021, you wrote:
>In the email I received there was no drawing attached. Could
>someone re-post the drawing file? Or send it to me directly.
>
>In fact, I only see Bob's & Charlie's replies, not the original
>post. That seems weird....
The drawing has been contrast adjusted and
posted at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Booth_RV10_Wiring.jpg
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
Hi Jeff,
I never saw the original, either. Since it doesn't show up in the forum
format either, I wonder if it went direct to Bob.
However.... I get the list via individual emails, and I *frequently* see
replies to posts for which I never got the original. Occasionally, I'll
find the original in my gmail spam/junk folders, but often the only way
I see them is to look at the forum version. I've assumed that the cause
is glitches in the multi-format distribution methods required, but I've
never pushed the question to Matt (list owner).
Charlie
On 1/10/2021 12:27 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> In the email I received there was no drawing attached. Could someone
> re-post the drawing file? Or send it to me directly.
>
> In fact, I only see Bob's & Charlie's replies, not the original post.
> That seems weird....
>
>
> -Jeff
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 06:59:46 AM PST, Charlie England
> <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
> wrote:
>
> At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
>> Hey guys I am way in over my head on this forum but a nice man
>> from BandC suggested I try. Attached is the electrical diagram of
>> my recently purchased RV10. It was completed in 2009 and the
>> avionics was switched to a Garmin 900x a year later. My issue is
>> it safe and operationally sound. It is an X design, if that is
>> familiar.
> snipped
>> Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator
>> amperage seems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps
>> when the airplane has most accessories off. Feeding both
>> alternators into a single bus bar seems to cause issues and
>> is that safe?
>
> snipped
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I couldn't see the diagram, but the 'all over the place' alternator
> amperage suggests issues with the shunt's wiring. My (purchased) RV6
> had inline fuse holders for glass fuses to 'protect' the sense lines
> (protect in quotes because the fuses were somewhere near the middle of
> the wire runs). The flaky contact between the cheezy fuse holders and
> the fuses caused amperage readings to be... 'all over the place'. Just
> one place to look, to isolate your random current readings.
>
> Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Sent: Jan 10, 2021 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Charger
Battery is a PC 680 in a RV9A.
Pete
At 01:37 AM 1/10/2021, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message
posted by: <phudes@ix.netcom.com>
Old battery charger stopped working. What is the current recommendation
for a charger and battery minder?
How big a charger? My local Walmart stocks a range
of Schumacher chargers as well as the now legendary
Battery Tender Jr.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black
boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
BobN - Thanks for the drawing.
Charlie - I interact with the List in exactly the same way & have the same
experiences you detailed.=C2- Good to know it's not just me.
Does anyone know in what part of the country the original poster is located
?
-Jeff
On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 11:25:31 AM PST, Charlie England <ceenglan
d7@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
I never saw the original, either. Since it doesn't show up in the forum fo
rmat either, I wonder if it went direct to Bob.
However.... I get the list via individual emails, and I *frequently* see r
eplies to posts for which I never got the original. Occasionally, I'll find
the original in my gmail spam/junk folders, but often the only way I see t
hem is to look at the forum version. I've assumed that the cause is glitche
s in the multi-format distribution methods required, but I've never pushed
the question to Matt (list owner).
Charlie
On 1/10/2021 12:27 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
In the email I received there was no drawing attached.=C2- Could someone
re-post the drawing file?=C2- Or send it to me directly.
In fact, I only see Bob's & Charlie's replies, not the original post.=C2
- That seems weird....
-Jeff
On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 06:59:46 AM PST, Charlie England <ceengl
and7@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com> wrote:
At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
Hey guys I am way in over my head on this forum but a nice man from BandC s
uggested I try.=C2- Attached is the electrical diagram of my recently pur
chased RV10. It was completed in 2009 and the avionics was switched to a Ga
rmin 900x a year later.=C2- My issue is it safe and operationally sound.
It is an X design, if that is familiar.
snipped
Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator amperage se
ems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when the airplane has mo
st accessories off. Feeding both alternators into a single =C3=A2=82=AC
=C5=93bus bar=C3=A2=82=AC seems to cause issues and is that safe?
=C2- =C2-snipped
=C2- Bob . . .
I couldn't see the diagram, but the 'all over the place' alternator ampera
ge suggests issues with the shunt's wiring. My (purchased) RV6=C2-had inl
ine fuse holders for glass fuses to 'protect' the sense lines (protect in q
uotes because the fuses were somewhere near the middle of the wire runs). T
he flaky contact between the cheezy fuse holders and the fuses caused amper
age readings to be... 'all over the place'. Just one place to look, to isol
ate your random current readings.
Charlie
| | Virus-free. www.avast.com |
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
Had a little more time to review your drawing.
>My issue is it safe and operationally sound. It
>is an X design, if that is familiar.
Not familiar with that designatoin.
>Apparently the builder added a bus tie in order to bypass a diode bridge
>rectifier type because the draw to recharge the Aux Battery, 2 wheel chair
>batteries 7Ah 12v wired in series . . . .
In series? Parallel maybe?
>reduced the essential bus voltage to 12.6v. This bus tie when on,boosts
>both busses back to 13.6v. Is this how it was meant to be run?
The diode WILL drop the voltage by about 0.7 volts
which is insignificant when only e-bus accessories
are being powered. You don't want to charge a battery
through this pathway.
>Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator
>amperage seems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when
>the airplane has most accessories off. Feeding both alternators
>into a single =9Cbus bar=9D seems to cause issues and is that
safe?
TWO alternators don't play well running
in tandem unless their regulators are
specifically chosen for parallel operation.
If you want to run two batteries, then consider
rerouting some wiring to achieve Z14 configuration.
Replace the diode bridge (which is not wired
correctly in the drawing) with a cross-feed
contactor.
Normal Z14 ops call for both alternators
to run all the time independently of each
other on separate systems but with an
ability to share energy between systems
should one alternator fail
>Therefore it=99s been recommended that I swap
>out the Stby Alt for a 60A PP alternator and
>just use it as the primary power source.
Don't think that's necessary . . .
>My preference would be going to a Z plan where each alternator powers its
>own bus but I=99ve been advised against that.
Can't imagine why . . . Z14 was published about 20 years
ago an is flying on a lot of OBAM aircraft. If you
want to keep two batteries, Z-14 is the way to go.
Conversely, you could take some weight out of the
airplane by dropping to one battery and picking
the relevant features of Z101 which is the
decades younger, recommended replacement for Z14
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Charger |
>
>Battery is a PC 680 in a RV9A.
Sounds like all your needing is a Battery Tender
for battery maintenance. It will recharge your
PC680, albeit slowly. But how often do you need
to recharge badly depleted battery?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Two charging devices running in parallel? |
Hi Bob You wrote in a post for RV10: "TWO alternators don't play well running
in tandem unless their regulators are specifically chosen for parallel operation."
My specific question is about my Rotax 914. I will be using a single Earth-X 680C
LiFe battery. It has an internal generator and I am using a B&C AVC1 regulator
with set-point at 14.5 volts. In addition on the vacuum pad I have a B&C LR3D
with set-point at 14.6 volts. The vacuum pad doesn't spin very fast and at
lower RPMs the alternator doesn't put out as much as the internal generator.
That said the internal generator best be kept to 12 amps or less continuous amp
draw to achieve long life from it. Idea is let the alternator put out it's best
and do as much work as it can as it can do so without worry of over taxing
it. Then if set-point of 14.6 volts can't be maintained the generator will take
over and supplement. I have a shunt to read amp output on both chargers.
Would my plan satisfy "regulators specifically chosen for parallel operation."
Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500124#500124
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| Subject: | Re: Monarch EE Anti-Plugging Field Accelerating? |
Hi Group Thanks to those who replied about brushes and enlightenment how a 1941
Monarch EE works. I certainly have a much better grasp on how it works.
Anyway today I finished up replacing it's 10 brushes and tending to anything that
needed to be done. It's working perfectly!
Have owned it since mid 1970s.
Here's a pic. from 2013 when it was in need of a good going over:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VtFmAe2PksSsa9K14
In 2017 gave it the tending to it needed. Took several months. Here's a pic. from
today:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V4VH1Kt1w_kil96gs
Managed to fill it with chips today and retrieve resultant aeroplane parts.
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500125#500125
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
=EF=BBThanks for your time, interest and help. My formatting is from an i
Pad so....
I am located in Fredericksburg VA.
The builder is getting up there in age and it was built 12 years ago but he t
old me he chose this design so if there was an alternator failure it would t
ransfer automatically. He added that he always thought he should remove the
one way diode. The diode diagram is attached. I did remove the diode by di
sconnecting it but the Stby Alternator regulator and fuse blew.
I can add after 6 months of frustration I have learned a lot about my electr
ical system. The shunt off of the alternators is incorrect and will be repl
aced this week. The battery shunt appears to be off by a factor of 2.5. The
Garmin draw with only the battery on and both PFD=99s tested at 7amps
draw while the Garmin displayed 17 amps draw. This implies to me that it n
eeds a 250a and 50mV shunt. I plan on contacting Garmin this week to determ
ine their requirements.
Regarding the two batteries; number 1 is an Odyssey 925 and number two are t
he wheel chair batteries wired maybe in parallel; picture included. I am no
t sure these qualify for an alternator all their own? I=99m not sure w
hich way to turn.
With regards to the Z101 option or the Z14 for that matter I am for what eve
r works best for my current situation. I need to be able to communicate it t
o my A and P.
William Booth
> On Jan 10, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
> =EF=BB Had a little more time to review your drawing.
>
>> My issue is it safe and operationally sound. It is an X design, if that i
s familiar.
>
> Not familiar with that designatoin.
>
>> Apparently the builder added a bus tie in order to bypass a diode bridge
>> rectifier type because the draw to recharge the Aux Battery, 2 wheel chai
r
>> batteries 7Ah 12v wired in series . . . .
>
> In series? Parallel maybe?
>
>> reduced the essential bus voltage to 12.6v. This bus tie when on,boosts
>> both busses back to 13.6v. Is this how it was meant to be run?
>
> The diode WILL drop the voltage by about 0.7 volts
> which is insignificant when only e-bus accessories
> are being powered. You don't want to charge a battery
> through this pathway.
>
>> Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator
>> amperage seems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when
>> the airplane has most accessories off. Feeding both alternators
>> into a single =9Cbus bar=9D seems to cause issues and is that
safe?
>
> TWO alternators don't play well running
> in tandem unless their regulators are
> specifically chosen for parallel operation.
>
> If you want to run two batteries, then consider
> rerouting some wiring to achieve Z14 configuration.
> Replace the diode bridge (which is not wired
> correctly in the drawing) with a cross-feed
> contactor.
>
> Normal Z14 ops call for both alternators
> to run all the time independently of each
> other on separate systems but with an
> ability to share energy between systems
> should one alternator fail
>
>
>
>> Therefore it=99s been recommended that I swap out the Stby Alt for a
60A PP alternator and just use it as the primary power source.
>
> Don't think that's necessary . . .
>
>> My preference would be going to a Z plan where each alternator powers its
>> own bus but I=99ve been advised against that.
>
> Can't imagine why . . . Z14 was published about 20 years
> ago an is flying on a lot of OBAM aircraft. If you
> want to keep two batteries, Z-14 is the way to go.
> Conversely, you could take some weight out of the
> airplane by dropping to one battery and picking
> the relevant features of Z101 which is the
> decades younger, recommended replacement for Z14
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
For what it's worth, I have the individual emails sent to my computer email and
I definitely received all four copies of the email with the attached schematic.
Obviously something is different between our computers but I have no idea what
it might be.
I also have a weird issue with emails. Whenever I send an email like this one,
the matronics server sends me a bounceback saying I cannot post because I am not
a member (which is wrong as I am a
member) but the email gets posted anyway. I tried contacting Matt to get it fixed
to no avail, but since the email does go through I just ignore it.\ now.
Jeff Luckey wrote:
> BobN - Thanks for the drawing.
>
> Charlie - I interact with the List in exactly the same way & have the same experiences
you detailed. Good to know it's not just me.
>
> Does anyone know in what part of the country the original poster is located?
>
>
> -Jeff
>
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 11:25:31 AM PST, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I never saw the original, either. Since it doesn't show up in the forum format
either, I wonder if it went direct to Bob.
>
> However.... I get the list via individual emails, and I *frequently* see replies
to posts for which I never got the original. Occasionally, I'll find the original
in my gmail spam/junk folders, but
> often the only way I see them is to look at the forum version. I've assumed that
the cause is glitches in the multi-format distribution methods required, but
I've never pushed the question to Matt
> (list owner).
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/10/2021 12:27 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> In the email I received there was no drawing attached. Could someone re-post
the drawing file? Or send it to me directly.
>
> In fact, I only see Bob's & Charlie's replies, not the original post. That seems
weird....
>
>
> -Jeff
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 06:59:46 AM PST, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> wrote:
>
> At 06:54 AM 1/9/2021, you wrote:
>> Hey guys I am way in over my head on this forum but a nice man from BandC
suggested I try. Attached is the electrical diagram of my recently purchased
RV10. It was completed in 2009 and the
>> avionics was switched to a Garmin 900x a year later. My issue is it safe
and operationally sound. It is an X design, if that is familiar.
> snipped
>> Additionally with both alternators on, the displayed alternator amperage
seems to be all over the scale; sometimes 45-50 amps when the airplane has most
accessories off. Feeding both
>> alternators into a single bus bar seems to cause issues and is that safe?
>
> snipped
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I couldn't see the diagram, but the 'all over the place' alternator amperage
suggests issues with the shunt's wiring. My (purchased) RV6 had inline fuse holders
for glass fuses to 'protect' the
> sense lines (protect in quotes because the fuses were somewhere near the middle
of the wire runs). The flaky contact between the cheezy fuse holders and the
fuses caused amperage readings to be...
> 'all over the place'. Just one place to look, to isolate your random current
readings.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
The email problems can be avoided by reading posts here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3
The OP is from Virginia.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500128#500128
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
We're aware, but some of us just prefer email delivery=2E
=81=A3Sent fr
om BlueMail =8B
On Jan 10, 2021, 9:31 PM, at 9:31 PM, user9253 <fran
sew@gmail=2Ecom> wrote:
" <fransew@gmail=2Ecom>
>
>The email problems can be avoided by reading pos
ts here:
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewforum=2Ephp?f=3
>The OP is
from Virginia=2E
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
>
>
>Read this topic online her
e:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp?p=500128#500128
>
>
>
>
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Two charging devices running in parallel? |
Hi Bob You wrote in a post for RV10: "TWO alternators don't play well running
in tandem unless their regulators are specifically chosen for
parallel operation."
Okay, the legacy definition of 'paralleled alternators/generators'
says the two machines are regulated for the same set-point and
ideally, they SHARE the system loads between them.
Many GA twins were fitted with paralleling systems on their
generators. The Beech 18 had some carbon pile regulators . . .
the Cessna 310/320 had some electro-mechanical devices; both
had paralleling coils on their voltage sense magnetics.
To date, I'm aware of NO dual alternator systems in an OBAM
aircraft wherein the two alternators are expected to simultaneously
deliver energy into a system. The B&C standby systems
are fitted with lowered set-point regulators so that they
'auto-switch' when the bus voltage falls below the setpoint
due to main alternator failure.
Tandem operation was never anticipated. Yeah, they were sorta
connected up all the time but they were designed to operate
independently of each other.
My specific question is about my Rotax 914. I will be using a single
Earth-X 680C
LiFe battery. It has an internal generator and I am using a B&C AVC1 regulator
with set-point at 14.5 volts. In addition on the vacuum pad I have a B&C LR3D
with set-point at 14.6 volts. The vacuum pad doesn't spin very fast and at
lower RPMs the alternator doesn't put out as much as the internal generator.
Have you discussed this will B&C? I wonder if they have
any customers with field experience on this configuration.
Let's noodle thru this:
The LiFePO4 delivers energy at 13.0 and below. So after
start up the regulators on both alternators will sense
'voltage low' and command their respective machines
to pick up the bus. If rpm is high enough the PM
alternator will pick up system loads at 14.5 . . .
at higher rpm the pad driven alternator will pick
up loads at 14.6 whereupon the PM alternator
will 'relax' until such time as system loads exceed
output of the pad-driven alternator.
The pad driven alternator becomes 'unregulated'
and limited in output only by rpm. Voltage sags
until the PM alternator picks up what's left
over.
Whether or not this is a stable condition
is subject to tests. In this case the alternators
are not sharing system loads. The pad-driven
device is running full-field and the PM alternator
becomes 'system master' and ostensibly will hold
the bus at 14.5.
Looks pretty good on paper . . . do you know
any one who is flying this?
That said the internal generator best be kept to 12 amps or less continuous
amp draw to achieve long life from it. Idea is let the alternator put out
it's best and do as much work as it can as it can do so without worry of over
taxing it. Then if set-point of 14.6 volts can't be maintained the generator
will take over and supplement. I have a shunt to read amp output on
both chargers.
Would my plan satisfy "regulators specifically chosen for parallel operation."
Dunno . . . the condition Mr. Booth was citing
is classic behavior for a pair of machines
expected to operate REGULATED and regulator
dynamics causes them to wrestle with each other.
The result is often manifested in wildly
fluctuating field voltages and outputs.
In your case, you never have both alternators
fighting for regulation dominance. One of the
regulators is always hard-over wherein regulation
dynamics are not a factor. Whether or
not the regulators are sufficiently stable to
setpoints that close together remains to be
seen . . . and the spread can always be opened
up a bit.
An interesting experiment!
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Electrical Issue (w/ Format Clean Up) |
On 1/10/2021 7:06 PM, WILLIAM BOOTH wrote:
> I can add after 6 months of frustration I have learned a lot about my
> electrical system. The shunt off of the alternators is incorrect and
> will be replaced this week. The battery shunt appears to be off by a
> factor of 2.5. The Garmin draw with only the battery on and both PFDs
> tested at 7amps draw while the Garmin displayed 17 amps draw. This
> implies to me that it needs a 250a and 50mV shunt. I plan on
> contacting Garmin this week to determine their requirements.
Garmin specs a 100amp 50mV shunt. Certainly if the shunt and efis
settings don't match you'll get inaccurate readings. 7 amps sounds about
right to me. Also, I saw the previous comment about fuses in the middle
of the sense lines. Excess resistance there will also affect the
readings. Fuses are a good idea but they should be right at the shunt. I
used pico fuses to avoid issues with a fuse holder.
--Rick
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