Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - tachometer ballast resistor (Rowland Carson)
2. 08:41 AM - Zeftronics Regulator Connection Question (farmrjohn)
3. 09:43 AM - Re: Wiring of the S704 in Z101 (johnbright)
4. 09:57 AM - Re: Power distribution parts (johnbright)
5. 09:59 AM - Re: Wiring of the S704 in Z101 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:15 PM - Alternator behavior (David and Elaine Lamphere)
7. 01:47 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (Charlie England)
8. 02:08 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (David and Elaine Lamphere)
9. 03:29 PM - Alternator behavior (David and Elaine Lamphere)
10. 04:03 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (johnbright)
11. 04:26 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (Charlie England)
12. 06:24 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (David and Elaine Lamphere)
13. 07:14 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:18 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Power distribution parts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:36 PM - Re: Alternator behavior (Charlie England)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | tachometer ballast resistor |
Im wiring my Europa XS with a 912ULS engine. I have fitted the factory-supplied
UMA tacho and am also taking the engine tacho output to a MGL E-3 engine instrument
and a Smart Avionics CSC-1 prop controller.
The UMA manual calls for a 270 resistor across the engine tacho output (if the
readings are erratic). The MGL manual calls for 220 (and one is supplied).
Does anyone know if using the 220 resistor would make the UMA tacho unhappy?
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Zeftronics Regulator Connection Question |
I have a Zeftronics R15100 voltage regulator that has the following terminals:
I-A-S-F. Only three terminals have wires connected to them, I-A-F. For low or
high voltage indication it looks like an Electronics International VA-1 voltmeter
is used. Everything seems to be working (system shows 14.1 volts when engine
running, alternator on), should I move the I lead to the S terminal?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500332#500332
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring of the S704 in Z101 |
It doesn't matter whether current flows from or to the common terminal of a relay.
In Z101 the common terminal has to go to the CD/aux/brownout bus because the bus
is powered by the battery thru the NO terminal and by the optional brownout
booster thru the NC terminal.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit?usp=sharing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500333#500333
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power distribution parts |
I tried to distribute the parts equitably.
Paul in Pennsylvania got a 10-fuse block, I got a 24-tab ground block, and Sebastien
in Canada got two ground blocks and three fuse blocks. The 4-fuse block
is orphaned but warm and dry.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit?usp=sharing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500334#500334
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring of the S704 in Z101 |
At 02:57 PM 1/18/2021, you wrote:
><preston.kavanagh@gmail.com>
>
>Over the weekend I figured out a detail of the Z101 diagram - how to
>wire the S704 relay. See attached.
>
>In the Z101 detail Bob mirrors the expected flow through a
>relay. Normally power comes in the COM and goes out through either
>the NC or (when the coil is activated) the NO. Here power is
>sitting in the NO ready to flow to the device through the COM. It's
>elegant and creative. Or at least I found it so.
That's one way to use it.
The S704 relay is just a single pole, double
throw switch. The only difference is that it
is operated REMOTELY by energizing a magnetic
motor.
There is nothing 'magic' about which way
power flows through the operating 'switch' . . .
One could have two power inputs NO and NC
terminals with power out on COM. You'll
find all variations on the theme in the PPS
drawing on the website.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Alternator behavior |
I=99m puzzled.
I have the alternator setup on the bench as described before.
If I have it all connected (gnd, field, output, pos) and turn on the
electric motor
it does not charge. Stays at battery V (12.4V or so)
If I disconnect the battery negative (ground) lead, start up the motor
and THEN connect the ground
it generates 14.2V and charges the battery.
If I shut off the motor and do not disconnect anything and start the
motor again - it does not charge!
Why?
And how on earth am I going to get this to work in the airplane??
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
On 1/19/2021 2:10 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
> Im puzzled.
>
> I have the alternator setup on the bench as described before.
>
>
> If I have it all connected (gnd, field, output, pos) and turn on the electric
motor
> it does not charge. Stays at battery V (12.4V or so)
>
> If I disconnect the battery negative (ground) lead, start up the motor and THEN
connect the ground
> it generates 14.2V and charges the battery.
>
> If I shut off the motor and do not disconnect anything and start the motor again
- it does not charge!
>
> Why?
>
> And how on earth am I going to get this to work in the airplane??
What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
motor, and then connect the field?
BTW, regular photos (.jpg images) will display in most email clients
automatically, but .pdf files require a separate download operation to
see them.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
On Jan 19, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 1/19/2021 2:10 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
motor, and then connect the field?
It also starts charging and buss is 14V!
Any theories?
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
<x-msg://25/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Alternator behavior |
sorry for the cutting error
On Jan 19, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
<mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
motor, and then connect the field?
ANSWER:
It also starts charging and buss is 14V!
Any theories?
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
<x-msg://25/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
My theory is that the wire you call field is actually enable and the car knows
how to handle it.
My second theory, or concern, is that the alternator will remain functional after
power is removed from the enable wire. This would mean that in a fire-in-the-cockpit
scenario you would not be able to kill the main bus without stopping
the propeller.
I would connect B+ and ground, spin the alternator, then connect the "field"...
then disconnect the field.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit?usp=sharing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500340#500340
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
On 1/19/2021 5:23 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
> sorry for the cutting error
>
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
> What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
> motor, and then connect the field?
>
> ANSWER:
> It also starts charging and buss is 14V!
>
> Any theories?
I think the interwebs have caught the Covid. ;-)
I sent the following a couple of hours ago, but it isn't showing up in
the AEC web view.
>>
No theories, but you might want to let PP know your results, and ask
them. Detail the hookup, and be specific about it failing to come on
line if the 'field' (actually a 'turn-on' signal terminal) is held at
battery voltage prior to spin-up, and that it does come on line if the
control terminal is left floating until after spin-up.
My personal solution is to spend about 20% of the money (on an
off-the-shelf IR automotive alternator and an overvoltage module/relay). ;-)
One theory that just occurred to me (*purely speculative*) is the
possibility that since the alt has an automotive 'heritage', the
internal control logic could be set up to only allow the alternator to
come on line if the control terminal goes 'hi' (on) *after* the
alternator is spinning. Some automotive applications keep the control
terminal in 'lo' state until after the ignition switch goes from 'start'
to 'run'; the alt's control logic may be 'enforcing' that.
Have you tried connecting everything, spinning up, then opening/closing
the control line?
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
Charlie,
This alternator just came back from Hartzell/PlanePower. They told me it
passed their tests and denied warranty replacement.
I informed them of my intent to bench test before putting it back in the
plane.
The engineer I was communicating with implied they could only help with
aircraft installation troubleshooting.
I have sent them the same information I have posted and as of yet not
heard back from them.
I suppose I could get in the habit of starting the engine in the plane
with the main power switch set to battery, then turn on the field power
- but that=99s something that just doesn=99t seem right to
me. Never had to do that with the PP alternator I have had in the
Tailwind for the past 12 years. Still, that might be an angle to get
some more phase 1 flying in and qualify as in the aircraft (for PP
troubleshooting).
By the control line do you mean the wire powering the field? I=99ll
try that in the morning.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
On Jan 19, 2021, at 7:24 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 1/19/2021 5:23 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
> sorry for the cutting error
>
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
<mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
> What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
motor, and then connect the field?
>
> ANSWER:
> It also starts charging and buss is 14V!
>
> Any theories?
I think the interwebs have caught the Covid. ;-)
I sent the following a couple of hours ago, but it isn't showing up in
the AEC web view.
>>
No theories, but you might want to let PP know your results, and ask
them. Detail the hookup, and be specific about it failing to come on
line if the 'field' (actually a 'turn-on' signal terminal) is held at
battery voltage prior to spin-up, and that it does come on line if the
control terminal is left floating until after spin-up.
My personal solution is to spend about 20% of the money (on an
off-the-shelf IR automotive alternator and an overvoltage module/relay).
;-)
One theory that just occurred to me (purely speculative) is the
possibility that since the alt has an automotive 'heritage', the
internal control logic could be set up to only allow the alternator to
come on line if the control terminal goes 'hi' (on) *after* the
alternator is spinning. Some automotive applications keep the control
terminal in 'lo' state until after the ignition switch goes from 'start'
to 'run'; the alt's control logic may be 'enforcing' that.
Have you tried connecting everything, spinning up, then opening/closing
the control line?
Charlie
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
>>If I shut off the motor and do not disconnect anything and start
>>the motor again - it does not charge!
>>
>>Why?
>>
>>And how on earth am I going to get this to work in the airplane??
>What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
>motor, and then connect the field?
Agreed. It doesn't operate in the airplane
like you're testing it on the bench.
The internal regulator is fitted with certain
'features' that don't exist in legacy regulators
popular in aircraft. The thing MIGHT be designed
to keep the alternator dormant if field control
and motive power come up at the same time.
Modern engine control modules wait until the
engine is stable after cranking before adding
alternator loads.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
>I suppose I could get in the habit of starting
>the engine in the plane with the main power
>switch set to battery, then turn on the field
>power - but that=99s something that just
>doesn=99t seem right to me. Never had to do that
>with the PP alternator I have had in the
>Tailwind for the past 12 years. Still, that
>might be an angle to get some more phase 1
>flying in and qualify as in the aircraft (for PP troubleshooting).
>
>By the control line do you mean the wire
>powering the field? I=99ll try that in the morning.
>
>Thanks for your help.
The PP alternator of a decade ago
may have a completely different control
philosophy. I've always left the alternator
OFF until the engine is running smoothly.
Works good.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power distribution parts |
At 11:53 AM 1/19/2021, you wrote:
><john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>
>I tried to distribute the parts equitably.
>
>Paul in Pennsylvania got a 10-fuse block, I got a 24-tab ground
>block, and Sebastien in Canada got two ground blocks and three fuse
>blocks. The 4-fuse block is orphaned but warm and dry.
Good show!
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alternator behavior |
Isn't the PP alt internally regulated? Assuming it is, then the 'field'
terminal isn't actually a field terminal; it's simply a control
terminal. A true field terminal is tied directly to one end of the field
coil in the alternator; not the case with a PP or other internally
regulated alternator.
When I said to call PP, I meant to tell them what you're now seeing.
Install it in the plane (to satisfy PP), crank with the alt switch off,
turn the switch on, and see if it starts charging. Assuming it does,
explain the process you went through to PP & ask them if the behavior is
'normal'. You may just be experiencing PP's 'failure to communicate' how
the alt is supposed to act.
If they tell you that it's 'normal', then I guess that unfortunately,
you get to decide whether to live with it, or pick a different product.
Good luck,
Charlie
On 1/19/2021 8:20 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
> Charlie,
>
> This alternator just came back from Hartzell/PlanePower. *They told me
> it passed their tests and denied warranty replacement.*
>
> I informed them of my intent to bench test before putting it back in
> the plane.
> The engineer I was communicating with implied they could only help
> with aircraft installation troubleshooting.
> I have sent them the same information I have posted and as of yet not
> heard back from them.
>
> I suppose I could get in the habit of starting the engine in the plane
> with the main power switch set to battery, then turn on the field
> power - but thats something that just doesnt seem right to me. Never
> had to do that with the PP alternator I have had in the Tailwind for
> the past 12 years. Still, that might be an angle to get some more
> phase 1 flying in and qualify as in the aircraft (for PP troubleshooting).
> By the control line do you mean the wire powering the field? Ill try
> that in the morning.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Dave
>
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 7:24 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 1/19/2021 5:23 PM, David and Elaine Lamphere wrote:
>> sorry for the cutting error
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
>> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> What does it do if you leave the field leads disconnected, start the
>> motor, and then connect the field?
>>
>> ANSWER:
>> It also starts charging and buss is 14V!
>>
>> Any theories?
> I think the interwebs have caught the Covid. ;-)
> I sent the following a couple of hours ago, but it isn't showing up in
> the AEC web view.
> >>
>
> No theories, but you might want to let PP know your results, and ask
> them. Detail the hookup, and be specific about it failing to come on
> line if the 'field' (actually a 'turn-on' signal terminal) is held at
> battery voltage prior to spin-up, and that it does come on line if the
> control terminal is left floating until after spin-up.
>
> My personal solution is to spend about 20% of the money (on an
> off-the-shelf IR automotive alternator and an overvoltage
> module/relay). ;-)
>
> One theory that just occurred to me (*purely speculative*) is the
> possibility that since the alt has an automotive 'heritage', the
> internal control logic could be set up to only allow the alternator to
> come on line if the control terminal goes 'hi' (on) *after* the
> alternator is spinning. Some automotive applications keep the control
> terminal in 'lo' state until after the ignition switch goes from
> 'start' to 'run'; the alt's control logic may be 'enforcing' that.
>
> Have you tried connecting everything, spinning up, then
> opening/closing the control line?
>
> Charlie
>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|