Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:33 AM - Re: hangar elevator (Larry Mac Donald)
2. 06:02 AM - Re: hangar elevator (Ken Ryan)
3. 09:53 AM - Re: hangar elevator (Ernest Christley)
4. 07:27 PM - Re: hangar elevator (rparigoris)
5. 07:48 PM - Re: hangar elevator (rparigoris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: hangar elevator |
> On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using lim
it switches and relay(s)?
> Thanks,Ken
Ken,
You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the elevat
or to keep the elevator
straight and true while in motion. Then build an arm on the side of the
car to stick out to the side to
hit a limit switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1
a. Fasten them to the rails or
the walls and adjust them so the arm will trigger them when the car gets
to it=99s limit.
Larry
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: hangar elevator |
Because I already built one elevator that I have been using for about 15
years, I'm confident in the physical aspects of this project. It is just
the electrical control of the winch/hoist motor that I need help figuring
out.
Again, the elevator has three stops--lower, middle and upper. The simplest
solution, the one that I have implemented on my home elevator, is a simple
control box with two buttons, up and down. The buttons are spring loaded,
so I just release the buttons when I get where I am going. It works quite
well, and if I end up doing the same in the hangar that will be okay.
But I would like to improve upon this by using limit switches and relays to
make the elevator cab consistently stop at the same spot, and using a
remote control to eliminate the need for connecting the motor power cord to
the cab. So it seems to me that I need something like this:
1. A relay for the motor power cable that has two positions, one for
running the motor forward and one for running the cable in reverse
2. 3 limit switches, one for sensing each level the cab must stop at
3. Some way of bringing the limit switch for the middle level in and out of
the system, because normally I will not be stopping at the middle level
I can't figure out are whether the relay should be NO or NC or maybe no
"open" connection at all and how to configure the limit switches.
It may not be worth doing, since the spring button control box does work.
On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:38 AM Larry Mac Donald <lm4@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit
>> switches and relay(s)?
>> Thanks,Ken
>>
> Ken,
> You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the elevator
> to keep the elevator
> straight and true while in motion. Then build an arm on the side of the
> car to stick out to the side to
> hit a limit switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1a
.
> Fasten them to the rails or
> the walls and adjust them so the arm will trigger them when the car gets
> to it=99s limit.
> Larry
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
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>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: hangar elevator |
Normally, a limit switch will turn one direction off, and will not allow m
ovement in that direction.=C2- You have to move the car in the opposite d
irection before any movement in the first direction is possible.=C2- Sinc
e you have a stop in the middle, I think you are limited to either manual o
r computer control.=C2-=C2-
As far as the physical protection is concerned, I think the traditional saf
ety feature is that the car is suspended from the cable by the center of a
leaf spring that curves up in the middle.=C2- The leaf spring passes thro
ugh loops on either end that hold the car.=C2- When there is weight on th
e spring, the ends are pulled away from the side rails.=C2- If the cable
were to break, the spring is release and brake pads push against the side r
ails.=C2- It is easy enough to design the mechanical advantage such that
the car won't move up or down unless the spring is in tension.=C2- Worse
case scenario is that you're stuck between floors when the cable breaks.
On Sunday, March 7, 2021, 09:03:40 AM EST, Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.
com> wrote:
Because I already=C2-built one elevator that I have been using for about
15 years, I'm confident in the physical aspects of this project. It is jus
t the electrical control of the winch/hoist motor that I need help figuring
out.=C2-
Again, the elevator has three stops--lower, middle and upper. The simplest
solution, the one that I have implemented on my home elevator, is a simple
control box with two buttons, up and down. The buttons are spring loaded, s
o I just release the buttons when I get where I am going. It works quite we
ll, and if I end up doing the same in the hangar that will be okay.=C2-
But I would like to improve upon this by using limit switches and relays to
make the elevator cab consistently stop at the same spot, and using a remo
te control to eliminate the need for connecting the motor power cord to the
cab. So it seems to me that I need something like this:
1. A relay for the motor power cable that has two positions, one for runnin
g the motor forward and one for running the cable in reverse
2. 3 limit switches, one for sensing each level the cab must stop at
3. Some way of bringing the limit switch for the middle level in and out of
the system, because normally I will not be stopping at the middle level
I can't figure out are whether the relay should be NO or NC or maybe no "op
en" connection at all and how to configure the limit switches.=C2-
It may not be worth doing, since the spring button control box does work.
On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:38 AM Larry Mac Donald <lm4@juno.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit sw
itches and relay(s)?Thanks,Ken
Ken, You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the eleva
tor to keep the elevator=C2-straight and true while in motion. Then build
an arm on the side of the car to stick out to the side to=C2-hit a limit
switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1a. Fasten them
to the rails or=C2-the walls and adjust them so the arm will trigger the
m when the car gets to it=99s limit. Larry
____________________________________________________________
Top News - Sponsored By Newser
- Trump to Top GOP Fundraisers: Stop Using My Name
- Harry and Meghan Interview Cost CBS At Least $7M
- He Has Helped More People Die in California Than Anyone
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: hangar elevator |
Hi Ken Some thoughts on hangar elevator: ** I worked on a project and was using
Northern Tools 120vac cable hoist 1100/2200lb with pretty good success. It has
an ultimate up limit switch built in. Instead of having the hoist solid mounted,
it was on an electric trolley that rides on an I beam. The trolley works
just semi OK with limited load and a lot of fiddling to get balance just right.
It had idlers on one side and drive on the other. With higher loads it was unreliable
and motors would burn out. I modified to use 2 drive motors and it works
great. Travel was a little more than 16 feet. Don't know if you could use
120vac or if having it on a trolley would make sense for you. Anyway in the event
of a power failure I made up an AC battery. Needed to use a round cell AGM
starting battery (I forget name of mfg but auto places sell them) connected
to an inverter. It would run everything easily for at least enough to get it to
maximum travel and down. For up and down and travel I modified a single hand
held controller to run the hoist up and down and run 1 trolley motor forward
with the other one in reverse (and vise versa). I made 2 controllers, one hand
held and one huge giant joystick. They were connected with 4 conductor turn lock
220vac plug and sockets with some pretty nice stranded wire with tough flexible
black water proof outer coating, all from HD or Lowes. You could switch
between controllers by just unplugging 4 conductor twist lock plug. I used McMaster
micro switches on the joystick. Works a treat, never had a failure. As far
as what you are doing, you need to put some strong think into how not to hurt
physical switches if that's what you want to use. Perhaps an option could be
to use a proximity switch (ie reed switch) or a light beam and sensor like
a garage door opener (have them drive relay/s). The Northern Tool hoist comes
with a pulley. If you direct connect load to hoist it's rated for 1,100lbs. If
you put pulley on load, then put cable through the pulley and attach back to
hoist rati!
ng is 2,
200lbs. Of course it moves half as fast as a single cable and for a given movement
it uses twice as much cable. Just some ideas. If you need anymore details
please ask. Consider if you go remote control to have several emergency stop buttons
where you can get thing turned off from where ever you are. I'm not too
much worried about the transmission failing and giving you a free fall as some
creature getting tangled up in things and getting body pulled apart in some
gruesome and messy way. I built a unit that needed to be blessed for carrying
humans. Cost of unit was more than 10 times that of Northern Tools unit. It was
probably 4 or 5 times heavier and a lot larger. It was probably top down rated
at 1,100lbs, it used a cable about 3/8" thick and had a slipper clutch. You
see the clutch grabbed the cable, you would figure your load, then set clutch
a little stronger than the load but not enough more to mutilate human machines.
I was looking into making things remote control, have some experience with
Arduinos and Raspberry Pis, sorry I just don't have enough faith in them. If it
were only you ever operating, perhaps maby, but if someones dumb thumb gets
put on control and or there is a genuine failure, this has some serious potential
to harm. I was looking into using a model aeroplane radio control to actuate
servos that would be installed inside my huge joystick and actuate switches.
Good Luck Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500888#500888
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: hangar elevator |
Hi Ken
Here's the hoist:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200712245_200712245
It can be hard mounted in 1 spot or mounted on a trolley. If mounted on an I beam
you can have it electrically operated like I did using 1 drive motor (or modify
to use 2) or they sell trolleys that are just rollers and you push the hoist
manually.
If you were to use proximity sensors with reed switch, if you wanted to disable
middle floor, just remove magnet or break switch circuit by either removing a
wire or having a series switch. Depending on how long you need to run things,
you may be able to use relays with 12 or 24vdc coils (perhaps 5 volts) but rated
for 120vac current.
The up limit switch you just need to make something to grip cable and trip upper
limit lever on hoist. It would be adjustable so up is EZ. You could set this
upper limit a little shorter than your upper stop, now you would have some redundancy,
but it's a pretty reliable up limit. You absoluetly want to have whoever
is controlling hoist to have an emergency stop button (that's included in
the controller) and if you are ever carrying people (which you will read a gazillion
times in directions to never do so), then person needs an emergency shut
off in hand. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500889#500889
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