Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Art Zemon)
2. 06:17 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries ()
3. 06:36 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Kelly McMullen)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Jared Yates)
5. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Matthew S. Whiting)
8. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 01:24 PM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Charlie England)
10. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Matthew S. Whiting)
11. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Ernest Christley)
12. 05:17 PM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think
is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This
is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into
bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B
& C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would
be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At
worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator
from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
Is my head on straight?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. *
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 2
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| Subject: | EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
EarthX batteries don=99t play well in the cold!
After a couple of winter seasons of having it cut-out during the
starting cycle (with a full overnight charge), the EarthX folks
recommended a battery heater. I have it wired in with my cylinder bands
and oil sump heaters (Reiff). Happiness returns..
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Art Zemon
Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2021 8:54 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
Is my head on straight?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.
On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
> Is my head on straight?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
I've been really happy with the Earthx, for weight savings, durability
compared to the oddysey, and low self-discharge between flights.
On May 8, 2021 09:57:35 Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
> it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
> much lower price, with better cranking.
> Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
> technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
> line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
> for 12V models.
> Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
> different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
> The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
> that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
> physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
> lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
> for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
> I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
> cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
> situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
> Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
> In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
> All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
> money you want to spend.
>
> On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
>> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
>> Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
>> I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>>
>> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
>> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
>> the hangar in the afternoon.
>>
>> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
>> with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>>
>> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
>> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
>> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>>
>> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
>> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
>> At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
>> regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>>
>> Is my head on straight?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
>> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
>> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
>> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
At 12:42 PM 5/7/2021, you wrote:
>Hey Mark,
>
>I will confess to maybe doing this wrong, but I used the standard
>lacing tape from ACS all over my RV8. The stuff firewall forward
>has held up well. I use adel clamps on warm parts but the wires for
>the EGT and CHT and all the electrical are regular Dacron tape and
>I have had no issues.
. . . your experience echoes string tie practice at
the spam-can factories too. Don't recall ever
seeing anything more exotic than Type II
(Dacron) around the factory or experimental hangar.
The Dacron lace has been around since the 60's.
The Mil-T43435 spec got it's first UPDATE to
revision A and 1969!
Here's a chart that speaks to the various iterations
of M43435 lace:
https://tinyurl.com/ydottlf9
Size 3 was the most popular where I worked.
Size 2 would work for you well especially if
you can get a 'deal' on a partial or surplus
spool.
It has been used under the cowl on hundreds
of thousands of GA aircraft . . .who knows
how many transport/military machines. It's
rated for service at up to 177C (350F).
Nothing, short of directly radiated energy
from an exhaust stack, will get anywhere near
that warm.
Learn how to tie good knots:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
An enhanced method 1 calls for converting
the clove-hitch into a single or double
pass constrictor knot . . . but the clove hitch
works well too.
Here is one source:
https://tinyurl.com/ydta87er
Yeah, I know it's breathtakingly expensive . . .
after all . . . it's just fancy kite string . . .
right?
Trust me, return on investment is huge.
It will take some real time experience in
the shop but by the time you go through the
first 500 yards of the 1500 yard spool, it
will have paid for itself several times over
in labor/materials costs of alternatives.
Keep an eye out on eBay. Full or partial spools
show up there from time to time. That's where
I think I got most of my inventory.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
>On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley
><<mailto:echristley@att.net>echristley@att.net> wrote:
>In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications
>(you can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as
>hard as ty wraps).
I presume your referring to the running lace technique
popular Wwwaaaayyyy back when.
https://tinyurl.com/yh94ktzb
This is not recommended.
>I like these instead of ty wraps.
><https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940>https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940
Strength is but ONE issue. What's the service life
of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are
you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this
technology?
I would use these things to hold stuff together
during fabrication and even for some early
flight testing. But then I'd replace with
string ties.
By the way, got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth
and couldn't see what I was saying. The standard
put-up for M43435 lacing tape is 500 yards, not
1500.
Found this offering for polyester lacing tape
on Amazon:
https://tinyurl.com/4fp4n33f
Bet a dollar to a donut that this is the same stuff
put up on larger spools and 'certified'. I've
ordered a spool to get a hands-on look-see. Watch
this space. Quantity and price is attractive. The ad
doesn't speak to dimensions of the lace . . . I'll
check it out.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
Running lace is not recommended? Really??
Better tell NASA
https://www.sandman.com/files/NASAcable%20lacing40-43.pdf
Sent from my iPad
> On May 8, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> wro
te:
>>> In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications (yo
u can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as hard as ty wr
aps).
>>
>> I presume your referring to the running lace technique
>> popular Wwwaaaayyyy back when.
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/yh94ktzb
>>
>> This is not recommended.
>>
>> I like these instead of ty wraps.
>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-P
ack-90924HD/202261940
>
> Strength is but ONE issue. What's the service life
> of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are
> you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this
> technology?
>
> I would use these things to hold stuff together
> during fabrication and even for some early
> flight testing. But then I'd replace with
> string ties.
>
> By the way, got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth
> and couldn't see what I was saying. The standard
> put-up for M43435 lacing tape is 500 yards, not
> 1500.
>
> Found this offering for polyester lacing tape
> on Amazon:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/4fp4n33f
>
> Bet a dollar to a donut that this is the same stuff
> put up on larger spools and 'certified'. I've
> ordered a spool to get a hands-on look-see. Watch
> this space. Quantity and price is attractive. The ad
> doesn't speak to dimensions of the lace . . . I'll
> check it out.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
At 11:34 AM 5/8/2021, you wrote:
>Running lace is not recommended? Really??
>
>Better tell NASA=85
Okay, what does it do for you that periodic
ties don't?
I think it's a cost/benefit ratio thing.
It looks cool but does it add to the
longevity, maintainabilty or performance
of the finished product?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
They do add a failure mode or two, and add requirements for alternator size
, etc=2E And while loss of battery may not be a hazard in itself, human rea
ction to it could be hazardous in the wrong circumstances=2E Ex: getting a
=C2- minor shock while working from a ladder could cause a serious fall
=2E
FWIW, most typically sized Americans could save more weight than the E
-X, by spending *less* money (on food)=2E ;-)
Charlie
=81=A3Sent from
BlueMail =8B
On May 8, 2021, 7:59 AM, at 7:59 AM, Art Zemon <art@ze
mon=2Ename> wrote:
>Folks,
>
>It's time to replace my old battery and wonde
r what the current group
>think
>is on EarthX batteries vs=2E something mor
e "traditional" like Concord=2E
>This
>is a component of my airplane that I
want to "just work=2E" I'm not into
>bleeding edge experimentation=2E
>
>T
he primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri=2E We don't get
>t
erribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees
>in
>t
he hangar in the afternoon=2E
>
>My charging system is all B & C Aero: prim
ary and backup alternators
>with B
>& C Aero voltage regulators=2E
>
>The e
ngine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
>alternators a
nd an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
>threatening if
the battery failed in flight=2E
>
>In that environment, it looks like the E
arthX with its integrated BMS
>would
>be pretty much a drop-in replacement
for my old lead acid battery=2E At
>worst, I might need to turn up the volt
age on the backup voltage
>regulator
>from 13=2E5 V to 14=2E0 or so=2E The
primary is already set to 14=2E5=2E
>
>Is my head on straight?
>
> -- Ar
t Z=2E
>
>--
>https://CheerfulCurmudgeon=2Ecom/
>*Friendship is like a sto
ne=2E A stone has no value, but when you rub two
>stones together properly,
sparks of fire emerge=2E *
>Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
There is no functional difference, but there is an installation difference.
For runs of any length, a running lace is 2-3 times faster to install while
providing the same level of functionality. I can tie 3 running ties in the
time required to tie and cut one spot tie. That is the main difference I se
e.
I will turn your question around: why use spot ties when a running lace is t
hree times faster with equal functionality?
Sent from my iPad
> On May 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec
tric.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB At 11:34 AM 5/8/2021, you wrote:
>> Running lace is not recommended? Really??
>>
>> Better tell NASA
>
> Okay, what does it do for you that periodic
> ties don't?
>
> I think it's a cost/benefit ratio thing.
> It looks cool but does it add to the
> longevity, maintainabilty or performance
> of the finished product?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
==========================
==========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
==========================
====================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
On Saturday, May 8, 2021, 12:02:38 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuc
kolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
- I like these instead of ty wraps.
- https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Tie
s-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940
=C2-=C2-=C2- Strength is but ONE issue. What's the servicelife
=C2-=C2-=C2- of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are
=C2-=C2-=C2- you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this
=C2-=C2-=C2- technology?
=C2- =C2-=C2-
I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for years.
=C2- Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was finding th
e end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap" started.=C2- Just as
strong as when I put them on.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
Lowes sells Deka AGM batteries that are made in the USA. Part number ETX18L is
$94 with free shipping to store.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501782#501782
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