Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:22 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (bob noffs)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Art Zemon)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Jared Yates)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Kelly McMullen)
5. 10:12 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Bernie Willis)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Sebastien)
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 02:03 PM - Current-based alternator noise (Rick Beebe)
9. 04:32 PM - Re: Current-based alternator noise (user9253)
10. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:27 PM - Re: Current-based alternator noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Current-based alternator noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Art Zemon)
14. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:04 PM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
earthx is expensive and you don't need the weight savings. i wouldn't even
look at concorde, you can do just as well for way less money with an
odessey. i think the trick to longlife with an agm battery is to keep them
off a constant maintainer. they hold their charge for months so no need.
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:28 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
> it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
> much lower price, with better cranking.
> Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
> technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
> line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
> for 12V models.
> Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
> different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
> The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
> that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
> physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
> lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
> for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
> I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
> cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
> situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
> Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
> In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
> All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
> money you want to spend.
>
> On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
> >
> > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> > the hangar in the afternoon.
> >
> > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> > with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
> >
> > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> > threatening if the battery failed in flight.
> >
> > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
> >
> > Is my head on straight?
> >
> > -- Art Z.
> >
> > --
> > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing
more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will
provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.
I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much
looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.
-- Art Z.
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord.
> This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into
> bleeding edge experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with
> B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At
> worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator
> from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. *
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to
replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because
the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is better
on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, perhaps the
PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in the cold with
the Earthx as the other poster has.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing
> more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will
> provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.
>
> I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much
> looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
>> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord.
>> This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into
>> bleeding edge experimentation.
>>
>> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
>> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
>> the hangar in the afternoon.
>>
>> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with
>> B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>>
>> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
>> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
>> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>>
>> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
>> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At
>> worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator
>> from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> *Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. *
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
Yes, batteries need to be shielded from heat. On the firewall should not
be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or
similar insulation around the battery box, or even creating a metal
shield spaced a bit outside the battery. You can buy at least 3 PC680s
for the price of one EarthX. Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 get
much better life than one year, here in Arizona.
My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue,
but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage
when outside. 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensure reliability on long
cross-country trips.
Kelly
On 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
> I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to
> replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because
> the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is
> better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment,
> perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in
> the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has.
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
> <mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and
> doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think
> that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.
>
> I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very
> much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon.name
> <mailto:art@zemon.name>> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current
> group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more
> "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane
> that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge
> experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We
> don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal;
> over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup
> alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with
> two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient
> but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its
> integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my
> old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the
> voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or
> so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub
> two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying. Old
fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require
servicing and care not to discharge fully very often. AGM are essentially
the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when
discharging and getting hot so they last longer. Typically I'm seeing PC
680's lasting 4 to 5 years even when left over winter unused outside in
Alaska. I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old
and still cranking. The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based
batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our
area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium
batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft.
In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat. I'd
hate to have a battery fire there. In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put
them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu
in.)well and save a lot of weight too.
Bernie
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> kellym@aviating.com>
>
> IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
> it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
> much lower price, with better cranking.
> Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
> technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
> line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
> for 12V models.
> Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
> different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
> The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
> that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
> physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
> lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
> for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
> I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
> cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
> situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
> Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
> In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
> All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
> money you want to spend.
>
> On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
> >
> > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> > the hangar in the afternoon.
> >
> > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> > with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
> >
> > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> > threatening if the battery failed in flight.
> >
> > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
> >
> > Is my head on straight?
> >
> > -- Art Z.
> >
> > --
> > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
I went through two Odyssey batteries in my BD-4. The first one lasted just
over a year and was replaced on warranty. The next one was still going
strong after 3 years.
In our F1 Rocket we removed dual Odyssey 680s and replaced them with dual
EarthX 680s. Big weight savings and because they were in the tail, a bigger
increase is baggage capacity. One EarthX battery failed in under a year and
was replaced on warranty.
In our club Zenith, we just replaced our failing motorcycle lead acid
battery with an EarthX 680. The EarthX was chosen because our aircraft is a
bit of a new technology demonstrator for the members and some of them
wanted to try out the latest battery tech. Because our battery is in the
engine compartment and our aircraft is slightly tail heavy to begin with,
the lighter battery has reduced our baggage capacity by about 20 pounds.
On Sun, May 9, 2021, 10:19 Bernie Willis <arcticarrow@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying. Old
> fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require
> servicing and care not to discharge fully very often. AGM are essentially
> the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when
> discharging and getting hot so they last longer. Typically I'm seeing PC
> 680's lasting 4 to 5 years even when left over winter unused outside in
> Alaska. I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old
> and still cranking. The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based
> batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our
> area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium
> batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft.
>
> In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat. I'd
> hate to have a battery fire there. In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put
> them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu
> in.)well and save a lot of weight too.
>
> Bernie
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> wrote:
>
>> kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
>> it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
>> much lower price, with better cranking.
>> Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
>> technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
>> line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
>> for 12V models.
>> Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
>> different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
>> The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
>> that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
>> physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
>> lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
>> for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
>> I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
>> cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
>> situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
>> Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
>> In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
>> All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
>> money you want to spend.
>>
>> On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> > Folks,
>> >
>> > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
>> > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
>> > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
>> > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>> >
>> > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
>> > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees
>> in
>> > the hangar in the afternoon.
>> >
>> > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
>> > with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>> >
>> > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
>> > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
>> > threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>> >
>> > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
>> > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid
>> battery.
>> > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
>> > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>> >
>> > Is my head on straight?
>> >
>> > -- Art Z.
>> >
>> > --
>> > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
>> > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
>> > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
>> > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>> ==========
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
>>I like these instead of ty wraps.
>><https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940>https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940
>>
>I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for
>years. Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was
>finding the end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap"
>started. Just as strong as when I put them on.
Good data point! Are your examples the
same product as above? I note that the
product cited is 1/2 x 8" . . . can you
cut them into smaller segments? 8" seems
like a LOT of stuff to wrap around a few
wires.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 8
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| Subject: | Current-based alternator noise |
I have two alternators in my plane. The original belt-driven one is 20
years old. I'm not sure what exactly it is--the log book says it's an
ESI 32B19549. It's connected to a B&C LR3B voltage regulator. The second
one is a B&C BC410-H mounted on the accessory case with an SB1B-14
regulator.
I get a horrid whine from the primary alternator. We discussed that a
few months ago and it was suggested I check the grounds. I just finished
my condition inspection and paid close attention to all the grounding
and it appears to be good. All connections are tight with no corrosion.
Measuring resistance from the alternator case to the fuselage is only a
few milliohms.
The standby alternator is dead quiet.
In flight, the whine isn't too horribly noticeable over the engine noise
except for when the strobes are on. Today I turned on the pitot heat and
the whine when from whoop whoop to a constant loud whine. Normal draw,
with strobes and landing light (which I always leave on) is about 13
amps. If I shut off all the lights the draw goes down to 11 amps and at
that level the whine goes away. With pitot heat on it's 19 amps and the
whine is constant.
Thoughts? Does it need to be rebuilt?
Thanks.
--Rick
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Current-based alternator noise |
Check the AC voltage. It should be less than 1 volt AC
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501810#501810
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
At 03:24 PM 5/8/2021, you wrote:
>There is no functional difference, but there is an installation
>difference. For runs of any length, a running lace is 2-3 times
>faster to install while providing the same level of
>functionality. I can tie 3 running ties in the time required to tie
>and cut one spot tie. That is the main difference I see.
>
>I will turn your question around: why use spot ties when a running
>lace is three times faster with equal functionality?
Doing a running lace is an acquired skill
if you're going to secure each 'loop'
around the bundle. Lacking such security,
a break in the lace run will relax many
loops around the bundle. Further, you have to work
with as long a hunk of lace as you can
manage without tangling . . . generally
2x your 'reach'.
Individual ties of string or tie-wraps have
been standard operating technique for every
airframe company I've worked for.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Current-based alternator noise |
At 04:02 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote:
>I have two alternators in my plane. The original belt-driven one is
>20 years old. I'm not sure what exactly it is--the log book says
>it's an ESI 32B19549. It's connected to a B&C LR3B voltage
>regulator. The second one is a B&C BC410-H mounted on the accessory
>case with an SB1B-14 regulator.
>
>I get a horrid whine from the primary alternator. We discussed that
>a few months ago and it was suggested I check the grounds. I just
>finished my condition inspection and paid close attention to all the
>grounding and it appears to be good. All connections are tight with
>no corrosion. Measuring resistance from the alternator case to the
>fuselage is only a few milliohms.
>
>The standby alternator is dead quiet.
>
>In flight, the whine isn't too horribly noticeable over the engine
>noise except for when the strobes are on. Today I turned on the
>pitot heat and the whine when from whoop whoop to a constant loud
>whine. Normal draw, with strobes and landing light (which I always
>leave on) is about 13 amps. If I shut off all the lights the draw
>goes down to 11 amps and at that level the whine goes away. With
>pitot heat on it's 19 amps and the whine is constant.
>
>Thoughts? Does it need to be rebuilt?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Rick
99% of alternator noise issues do not
arise from a failure in the alternator.
The symptoms you describe are indicative
of a ground loop in your audio system.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Current-based alternator noise |
At 06:31 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote:
>
>Check the AC voltage. It should be less than 1 volt AC
This check can be useful but it's not
all inclusive particularly with digital
voltohmeters that don't have an 'output'
function (built in capacitor in series
with the test lead).
Also, digital voltmeters don't resolve
AC to the native DC world as did analog
meters. Mass of the pointers in analog
meters produce an inertial averaging
function. Digital meters won't read the
same for the complex waveform that is
alternator ripple even if you add the
requisite capacitor to take out the DC
component.
This check goes to the possible but very rare
instance of a bad diode in the alternator.
Since this is a belt driven machine, one way
to check it is take it off and have it run
on a test bench at an alternator dealer or
overhaul shop.
An alternator with damaged diodes will not
deliver anywhere near rated output current.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
>
>
> Folks,
I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane,
on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires
that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the
lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video
<https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/12/19/how-to-lace-wire/> on how I did
it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing
from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!
Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties
<https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940>
that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so
they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm
not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time
so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they
start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can
replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy
components which hold the airplane together.
On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff:
zip-ties and Adel clamps.
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. *
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
At 09:46 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and
>Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of
>the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles
>of wires that I fabricated prior to installing
>them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape
>from Aircraft Spruce and
><https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/12/19/how-to-lace-wire/>made
>a little video on how I did it. No, it's not
>NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove
>the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!
>
>Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used
>the
><https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pa
ck-90924HD/202261940>thin
>Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these
>because they are very thin and flexible so they
>are easy to use, even when you only have a few
>wires to tie up. I'm not worried about
>longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a
>long time so I trust the material. Furthermore,
>it's a low-risk application. If they start to
>deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual
>inspections and I can replace them. These ties
>are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy
>components which hold the airplane together.
>
>On the hot side of the firewall, I used the
>normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.=C2
Good data sir, thank you.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries |
There's been some anecdotal evidence that newer Odysseys have had some qual
ity/durability issues (short lifespans), but without knowing each battery's
operational history it might not be fair to blame the brand=2E
I've run g
eneric SLA batteries on the firewall on a couple of RV4s for about 25 years
=2E Never paid the premium for Odysseys=2E Typical life of around 4-5 years
=2E Most I've ever paid was around $70, when lead prices were elevated=2E T
ypical price is around $40=2E 20AH or 22AH fit the same space as a PC680, w
ith roughly the same cranking amps and more total energy=2E No vampire load
s in the planes, and I never use a maintainer=2E Planes have often sat for
a month or more without running=2E
Only caution is to check the weight on
any generic=2E If it's several pounds lighter than a PC680, the mfgr is lik
ely lying about AH capacity (though it'll probably still crank the engine w
ithout issue)=2E
If it makes you feel better to pay more, that's fine, bu
t my experience is that there's no need=2E
And again, it's cheaper and hea
lthier to lose the weight in the cockpit than the battery=2E
;-)
Charlie
=81=A3Sent from BlueMail =8B
On May 9, 2021, 8:15 PM, at 8:15 PM
, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating=2Ecom> wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List mess
age posted by: Kelly McMullen
><kellym@aviating=2Ecom>
>
>Yes, batteries ne
ed to be shielded from heat=2E On the firewall should
>not
>be a terribly
hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or
>similar insulation a
round the battery box, or even creating a metal
>shield spaced a bit outsi
de the battery=2E You can buy at least 3 PC680s
>for the price of one Eart
hX=2E Members of my EAA chapter using the 680
>get
>much better life than
one year, here in Arizona=2E
>My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft
so heat is less an issue,
>
>but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus
sun heating of fuselage
>when outside=2E 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensu
re reliability on long
>cross-country trips=2E
>Kelly
>
>On 5/9/2021 7:20
AM, Jared Yates wrote:
>> I found that I could get around a year out of a P
C680 before I had to
>
>> replace it=2E The Earthx has lasted much longer,
and I think it is
>because
>> the battery is forward of the firewall=2E Th
e high temp tolerance is
>> better on the Earthx=2E If your battery isn't
in a warm environment,
>> perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task=2E I've
never had any problems
>in
>> the cold with the Earthx as the other poste
r has=2E
>>
>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art@zemon=2Ename
>> <mailto:art@zemon=2Ename>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the advice, eve
rybody=2E After reading what y'all wrote
>and
>> doing more research, I
am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680=2E I
>think
>> that will provide p
lenty of amps for starting my IO-360=2E
>>
>> I have had to keep my ol
d battery on a trickle charger and am
>very
>> much looking forward to
not needing to hook that up after every
>flight=2E
>>
>> =C2- =C2
- -- Art Z=2E
>>
>> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art@ze
mon=2Ename
>> <mailto:art@zemon=2Ename>> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>
>
>> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the
>curr
ent
>> group think is on EarthX batteries vs=2E something more
>>
"traditional" like Concord=2E This is a component of my
>airplane
>>
that I want to "just work=2E" I'm not into bleeding edge
>>
experimentation=2E
>>
>> The primary use is starting a Lycoming
IO-360 in Missouri=2E We
>> don't get terribly cold winters but the
summers can be
>brutal;
>> over 100 degrees in the hangar in the a
fternoon=2E
>>
>> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary an
d backup
>> alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators=2E
>>
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with
>>
two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be
>inconvenient
>>
but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight=2E
>>
>>
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its
>> i
ntegrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for
>my
>>
old lead acid battery=2E At worst, I might need to turn up the
>>
voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13=2E5 V to 14=2E0
>or
>>
so=2E The primary is already set to 14=2E5=2E
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon=2Ecom/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon=2Ecom/>
>> /Friendship is like a stone=2E A stone has no value, but when you
>r
ub
>> two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge=2E /
>> R
abbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
>>
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