---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/09/21: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (bob noffs) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Art Zemon) 3. 07:22 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Jared Yates) 4. 07:35 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Kelly McMullen) 5. 10:12 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Bernie Willis) 6. 10:47 AM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Sebastien) 7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 02:03 PM - Current-based alternator noise (Rick Beebe) 9. 04:32 PM - Re: Current-based alternator noise (user9253) 10. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 05:27 PM - Re: Current-based alternator noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Current-based alternator noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Art Zemon) 14. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Thread Lacing Tape (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:04 PM - Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:48 AM PST US From: bob noffs Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries earthx is expensive and you don't need the weight savings. i wouldn't even look at concorde, you can do just as well for way less money with an odessey. i think the trick to longlife with an agm battery is to keep them off a constant maintainer. they hold their charge for months so no need. On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:28 PM Kelly McMullen wrote: > kellym@aviating.com> > > IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if > it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a > much lower price, with better cranking. > Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat > technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their > line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300 > for 12V models. > Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly > different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout. > The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model > that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in > physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and > lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity > for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150. > I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the > cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B > situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in > Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer. > In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life. > All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much > money you want to spend. > > On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > > Folks, > > > > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group > > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like > > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." > > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation. > > > > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get > > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in > > the hangar in the afternoon. > > > > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators > > with B & C Aero voltage regulators. > > > > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two > > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life > > threatening if the battery failed in flight. > > > > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS > > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. > > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage > > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. > > > > Is my head on straight? > > > > -- Art Z. > > > > -- > > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two > > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / > > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:43 AM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360. I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight. -- Art Z. On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. > This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into > bleeding edge experimentation. > > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in > the hangar in the afternoon. > > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with > B & C Aero voltage regulators. > > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life > threatening if the battery failed in flight. > > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At > worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator > from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. > -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. * Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:59 AM PST US From: Jared Yates Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon wrote: > Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing > more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will > provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360. > > I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much > looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight. > > -- Art Z. > > On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group >> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. >> This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into >> bleeding edge experimentation. >> >> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get >> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in >> the hangar in the afternoon. >> >> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with >> B & C Aero voltage regulators. >> >> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two >> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life >> threatening if the battery failed in flight. >> >> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS >> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At >> worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator >> from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. >> > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > *Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. * > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries From: Kelly McMullen Yes, batteries need to be shielded from heat. On the firewall should not be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or similar insulation around the battery box, or even creating a metal shield spaced a bit outside the battery. You can buy at least 3 PC680s for the price of one EarthX. Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 get much better life than one year, here in Arizona. My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue, but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage when outside. 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensure reliability on long cross-country trips. Kelly On 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to > replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because > the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is > better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, > perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in > the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has. > > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon > wrote: > > Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and > doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think > that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360. > > I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very > much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight. > > -- Art Z. > > On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon > wrote: > > Folks, > > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current > group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more > "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane > that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge > experimentation. > > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We > don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; > over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon. > > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup > alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators. > > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with > two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient > but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight. > > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its > integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my > old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the > voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or > so. The primary is already set to 14.5. > > > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub > two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:46 AM PST US From: Bernie Willis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying. Old fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require servicing and care not to discharge fully very often. AGM are essentially the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when discharging and getting hot so they last longer. Typically I'm seeing PC 680's lasting 4 to 5 years even when left over winter unused outside in Alaska. I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old and still cranking. The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft. In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat. I'd hate to have a battery fire there. In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu in.)well and save a lot of weight too. Bernie On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen wrote: > kellym@aviating.com> > > IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if > it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a > much lower price, with better cranking. > Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat > technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their > line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300 > for 12V models. > Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly > different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout. > The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model > that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in > physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and > lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity > for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150. > I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the > cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B > situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in > Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer. > In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life. > All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much > money you want to spend. > > On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote: > > Folks, > > > > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group > > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like > > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." > > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation. > > > > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get > > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in > > the hangar in the afternoon. > > > > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators > > with B & C Aero voltage regulators. > > > > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two > > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life > > threatening if the battery failed in flight. > > > > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS > > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. > > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage > > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. > > > > Is my head on straight? > > > > -- Art Z. > > > > -- > > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two > > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / > > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:40 AM PST US From: Sebastien Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries I went through two Odyssey batteries in my BD-4. The first one lasted just over a year and was replaced on warranty. The next one was still going strong after 3 years. In our F1 Rocket we removed dual Odyssey 680s and replaced them with dual EarthX 680s. Big weight savings and because they were in the tail, a bigger increase is baggage capacity. One EarthX battery failed in under a year and was replaced on warranty. In our club Zenith, we just replaced our failing motorcycle lead acid battery with an EarthX 680. The EarthX was chosen because our aircraft is a bit of a new technology demonstrator for the members and some of them wanted to try out the latest battery tech. Because our battery is in the engine compartment and our aircraft is slightly tail heavy to begin with, the lighter battery has reduced our baggage capacity by about 20 pounds. On Sun, May 9, 2021, 10:19 Bernie Willis wrote: > Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying. Old > fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require > servicing and care not to discharge fully very often. AGM are essentially > the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when > discharging and getting hot so they last longer. Typically I'm seeing PC > 680's lasting 4 to 5 years even when left over winter unused outside in > Alaska. I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old > and still cranking. The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based > batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our > area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium > batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft. > > In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat. I'd > hate to have a battery fire there. In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put > them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu > in.)well and save a lot of weight too. > > Bernie > > On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen > wrote: > >> kellym@aviating.com> >> >> IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if >> it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a >> much lower price, with better cranking. >> Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat >> technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their >> line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300 >> for 12V models. >> Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly >> different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout. >> The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model >> that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in >> physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and >> lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity >> for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150. >> I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the >> cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B >> situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in >> Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer. >> In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life. >> All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much >> money you want to spend. >> >> On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote: >> > Folks, >> > >> > It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group >> > think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like >> > Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." >> > I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation. >> > >> > The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get >> > terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees >> in >> > the hangar in the afternoon. >> > >> > My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators >> > with B & C Aero voltage regulators. >> > >> > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two >> > alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life >> > threatening if the battery failed in flight. >> > >> > In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS >> > would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid >> battery. >> > At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage >> > regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. >> > >> > Is my head on straight? >> > >> > -- Art Z. >> > >> > -- >> > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ >> > /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two >> > stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / >> > Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz >> ========== >> - >> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thread Lacing Tape >>I like these instead of ty wraps. >>https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940 >> >I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for >years. Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was >finding the end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap" >started. Just as strong as when I put them on. Good data point! Are your examples the same product as above? I note that the product cited is 1/2 x 8" . . . can you cut them into smaller segments? 8" seems like a LOT of stuff to wrap around a few wires. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:57 PM PST US From: Rick Beebe Subject: AeroElectric-List: Current-based alternator noise I have two alternators in my plane. The original belt-driven one is 20 years old. I'm not sure what exactly it is--the log book says it's an ESI 32B19549. It's connected to a B&C LR3B voltage regulator. The second one is a B&C BC410-H mounted on the accessory case with an SB1B-14 regulator. I get a horrid whine from the primary alternator. We discussed that a few months ago and it was suggested I check the grounds. I just finished my condition inspection and paid close attention to all the grounding and it appears to be good. All connections are tight with no corrosion. Measuring resistance from the alternator case to the fuselage is only a few milliohms. The standby alternator is dead quiet. In flight, the whine isn't too horribly noticeable over the engine noise except for when the strobes are on. Today I turned on the pitot heat and the whine when from whoop whoop to a constant loud whine. Normal draw, with strobes and landing light (which I always leave on) is about 13 amps. If I shut off all the lights the draw goes down to 11 amps and at that level the whine goes away. With pitot heat on it's 19 amps and the whine is constant. Thoughts? Does it need to be rebuilt? Thanks. --Rick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:38 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current-based alternator noise From: "user9253" Check the AC voltage. It should be less than 1 volt AC -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501810#501810 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:16 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thread Lacing Tape At 03:24 PM 5/8/2021, you wrote: >There is no functional difference, but there is an installation >difference. For runs of any length, a running lace is 2-3 times >faster to install while providing the same level of >functionality. I can tie 3 running ties in the time required to tie >and cut one spot tie. That is the main difference I see. > >I will turn your question around: why use spot ties when a running >lace is three times faster with equal functionality? Doing a running lace is an acquired skill if you're going to secure each 'loop' around the bundle. Lacking such security, a break in the lace run will relax many loops around the bundle. Further, you have to work with as long a hunk of lace as you can manage without tangling . . . generally 2x your 'reach'. Individual ties of string or tie-wraps have been standard operating technique for every airframe company I've worked for. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Current-based alternator noise At 04:02 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote: >I have two alternators in my plane. The original belt-driven one is >20 years old. I'm not sure what exactly it is--the log book says >it's an ESI 32B19549. It's connected to a B&C LR3B voltage >regulator. The second one is a B&C BC410-H mounted on the accessory >case with an SB1B-14 regulator. > >I get a horrid whine from the primary alternator. We discussed that >a few months ago and it was suggested I check the grounds. I just >finished my condition inspection and paid close attention to all the >grounding and it appears to be good. All connections are tight with >no corrosion. Measuring resistance from the alternator case to the >fuselage is only a few milliohms. > >The standby alternator is dead quiet. > >In flight, the whine isn't too horribly noticeable over the engine >noise except for when the strobes are on. Today I turned on the >pitot heat and the whine when from whoop whoop to a constant loud >whine. Normal draw, with strobes and landing light (which I always >leave on) is about 13 amps. If I shut off all the lights the draw >goes down to 11 amps and at that level the whine goes away. With >pitot heat on it's 19 amps and the whine is constant. > >Thoughts? Does it need to be rebuilt? > >Thanks. > >--Rick 99% of alternator noise issues do not arise from a failure in the alternator. The symptoms you describe are indicative of a ground loop in your audio system. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:12 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Current-based alternator noise At 06:31 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote: > >Check the AC voltage. It should be less than 1 volt AC This check can be useful but it's not all inclusive particularly with digital voltohmeters that don't have an 'output' function (built in capacitor in series with the test lead). Also, digital voltmeters don't resolve AC to the native DC world as did analog meters. Mass of the pointers in analog meters produce an inertial averaging function. Digital meters won't read the same for the complex waveform that is alternator ripple even if you add the requisite capacitor to take out the DC component. This check goes to the possible but very rare instance of a bad diode in the alternator. Since this is a belt driven machine, one way to check it is take it off and have it run on a test bench at an alternator dealer or overhaul shop. An alternator with damaged diodes will not deliver anywhere near rated output current. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:14 PM PST US From: Art Zemon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thread Lacing Tape > > > Folks, I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure! Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together. On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps. -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. * Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thread Lacing Tape At 09:46 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote: >Folks, > >I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and >Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of >the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles >of wires that I fabricated prior to installing >them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape >from Aircraft Spruce and >made >a little video on how I did it. No, it's not >NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove >the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure! > >Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used >the >thin >Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these >because they are very thin and flexible so they >are easy to use, even when you only have a few >wires to tie up. I'm not worried about >longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a >long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, >it's a low-risk application. If they start to >deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual >inspections and I can replace them. These ties >are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy >components which hold the airplane together. > >On the hot side of the firewall, I used the >normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.=C2 Good data sir, thank you. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EarthX vs Concord Batteries From: Charlie England There's been some anecdotal evidence that newer Odysseys have had some qual ity/durability issues (short lifespans), but without knowing each battery's operational history it might not be fair to blame the brand=2E I've run g eneric SLA batteries on the firewall on a couple of RV4s for about 25 years =2E Never paid the premium for Odysseys=2E Typical life of around 4-5 years =2E Most I've ever paid was around $70, when lead prices were elevated=2E T ypical price is around $40=2E 20AH or 22AH fit the same space as a PC680, w ith roughly the same cranking amps and more total energy=2E No vampire load s in the planes, and I never use a maintainer=2E Planes have often sat for a month or more without running=2E Only caution is to check the weight on any generic=2E If it's several pounds lighter than a PC680, the mfgr is lik ely lying about AH capacity (though it'll probably still crank the engine w ithout issue)=2E If it makes you feel better to pay more, that's fine, bu t my experience is that there's no need=2E And again, it's cheaper and hea lthier to lose the weight in the cockpit than the battery=2E ;-) Charlie =81=A3Sent from BlueMail =8B On May 9, 2021, 8:15 PM, at 8:15 PM , Kelly McMullen wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List mess age posted by: Kelly McMullen > > >Yes, batteries ne ed to be shielded from heat=2E On the firewall should >not >be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or >similar insulation a round the battery box, or even creating a metal >shield spaced a bit outsi de the battery=2E You can buy at least 3 PC680s >for the price of one Eart hX=2E Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 >get >much better life than one year, here in Arizona=2E >My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue, > >but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage >when outside=2E 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensu re reliability on long >cross-country trips=2E >Kelly > >On 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote: >> I found that I could get around a year out of a P C680 before I had to > >> replace it=2E The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is >because >> the battery is forward of the firewall=2E Th e high temp tolerance is >> better on the Earthx=2E If your battery isn't in a warm environment, >> perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task=2E I've never had any problems >in >> the cold with the Earthx as the other poste r has=2E >> >> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon > > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the advice, eve rybody=2E After reading what y'all wrote >and >> doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680=2E I >think >> that will provide p lenty of amps for starting my IO-360=2E >> >> I have had to keep my ol d battery on a trickle charger and am >very >> much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every >flight=2E >> >> =C2- =C2 - -- Art Z=2E >> >> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon > > wrote: >> >> Folks, > > >> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the >curr ent >> group think is on EarthX batteries vs=2E something more >> "traditional" like Concord=2E This is a component of my >airplane >> that I want to "just work=2E" I'm not into bleeding edge >> experimentation=2E >> >> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri=2E We >> don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be >brutal; >> over 100 degrees in the hangar in the a fternoon=2E >> >> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary an d backup >> alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators=2E >> > > The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with >> two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be >inconvenient >> but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight=2E >> >> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its >> i ntegrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for >my >> old lead acid battery=2E At worst, I might need to turn up the >> voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13=2E5 V to 14=2E0 >or >> so=2E The primary is already set to 14=2E5=2E >> >> >> >> -- >> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon=2Ecom/ >> /Friendship is like a stone=2E A stone has no value, but when you >r ub >> two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge=2E / >> R abbi Mordechai of Lechovitz >> ===================== - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - Features Navigator to browse n/Subscription, ronics=2Ecom/Navigator?AeroElectric-List = ent also available via the Web Forums! matronics=2Ecom ================== - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Wiki! === k you for your generous support! 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