Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:26 AM - For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 5G 256GB Original Unlocked $829 (jeiaery)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 (bill@howerton.com)
3. 11:37 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 (user9253)
4. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: EGT issues hwo to troubleshoot best (Werner Schneider)
5. 06:16 PM - For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 Pro 5G 128GB Unlocked $849 (jeiaery)
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| Subject: | For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 5G 256GB Original Unlocked |
$829
The Price is Canadian dollar. Visit Our Website www.esellibuy.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502679#502679
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 |
Check out my presentation
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AreStIOQRXvbbS5ZMN0VLbD3CYY?e=dQdIAf
Password for archive: 8888
*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 06/18/21: 10
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 09:54 AM - Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? (user9253)
> 2. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this?
(David Carter)
> 3. 12:49 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Peter Pengilly)
> 4. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this?
(Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 5. 01:27 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 6. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this?
(David Carter)
> 7. 02:12 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Kelly McMullen)
> 8. 09:34 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 9. 11:07 PM - Re: Dual alternators (tiyaverma)
> 10. 11:10 PM - Re: Dual alternators (tiyaverma)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:54:29 AM PST US
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this?
>From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>
>
>You need a DP3T ON-ON-ON switch.
>Mouser and Digikey and others sell them.
>https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z2o3Z1z0z28f
>https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/toggle-switches/201?s=N4IgjCBcpgzADFUBjKAzAhgGwM4FMAaEAeygG0RYAWeWAdgE4QBdIgBwBcoQBlDgJwCWAOwDmIAL5EATLACsSEKkiZchEuUoAOafABseluy6ReAkeKkgAtNMXKBAV3WlIFBcwlW7bkABEABVgAFRYJIA
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502430#502430
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:54:47 AM PST US
>From: David Carter <david@carter.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will
>do this?
>
>>> You need a DP3T ON-ON-ON switch.
>
>Joe - thank you, it appears that would work electrically. It took me a few
>minutes to decipher the actions of this switch, but I got there.
>
>However, I have not yet found one in a form factor that would match the
>rest of the standard toggles in my panel. I may have to just live with two
>switches. It's not the end of the world, but it's not as elegant.
>
>Thanks!
>
>---
>David Carter
>david@carter.net
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 12:49:53 PM PST US
>From: "Peter Pengilly" <Peter@sportingaero.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators
>
>In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and has the job of
>balancing the alternators.
>
>I=99m not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most
>of the time.
>
>The regulators are provided by the engine mfrs (Continental or Austro).
>
>The G1000 instrumentation systems use hall effect sensors to detect the
>output of each alternator.
>
>The regulators use a different sensor to do their job.
>
>Can result in the G1000 saying the loads are unbalanced, which makes
>pilots unhappy =93 although voltage is always good.
>
>I have spent a lot of time troubleshooting, reloading G1000 software and
>other stuff to cure what seems to be an imaginary problem.
>
>Peter
>
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
><owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: 17 June 2021 18:21
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators
>
>
> I've imagined, but never tested, that running two alternators that
> are feeding a single battery bus would be dominated by current from
> one of the alternators.
>
> My reasoning is that regardless of how closely the charge systems
> are matched, small variations would result in a slightly higher
> output voltage on one of them. This would then result in an even
> lower output from the lower voltage output charge system,
> which would reduce its current contribution.
>
> Yes, until system loads exceeded the capacity
> of the alternator with the higher set-point. The
> bus voltage sags allowing the lower set-point
> alternator to wake up and begin to support the
> load.
>
> This is what happens with a B&C standby alternator
> system. #2 alternator is set to some lower-than-nominal
> regulation voltage. Should the #1 alternator quit,
> voltage sags and #2 wakes up. Similarly, should the
> #1 alternator suffer an open winding with subsequent
> loss of capacity, the voltage might sag and again,
> #2 steps in to take up the slack.
>
> In both cases, #1 alternator is running maxed out
> whether by reason of total system loads =or= loss
> of capacity.
>
>If the above assumptions are accurate, how would it change if
>the two alternators shared a single regulator?
>(I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m not advocating
>this arrangement)
>
> Cessna 336/337 Models do just that. Beech Barons too.
> There is a switch for bringing a second regulator into
> service should the first one fail. This philosophy
> does produce a system whereby the two alternator
> ammeters track each other fairly closely . . . in
> my not so humble opinion, a totally misguided practice
> to keep pilot's 'happy'.
>
> There is no practical NEED for balancing the
> loads on two alternators assuming (1) either
> alternator can carry 100% of ships loads
> with (2) demonstrated adequacy of cooling.
>
> This shade-tree 'paralleling' scheme creates
> single points of failure for both alternators.
> How this got past in-house DERs is a mystery
> to me . . . how the FAA bought it is a . . .
> well . . . I won't go there.
>
>Would the result change If the two alternators were PMA units,
>mechanically tied together and producing a sin wave 'in-phase.'
>
> The engines cannot be synchronized that tightly.
>
>One final question I've wondered about. How do twin engine planes
>with two alternators manage (my assumed) tendency for two alternators
>in parallel quickly relying on the larger voltage out unit for most
>of the current?
>
> They parallel fields on a single regulator.
>
> I designed a true paralleling regulator proposal for Cessna on
> the 303 Crusader program thinking that there was a HUGH after market
> opportunity to put the system on new and fielded Barons and
>Skymasters.
> I don't know how the Cessna West was wiring their airplanes.
>
> In any case, Cessna East didn't bite on the idea so I
> was never funded to pursue the design. Twin Generators on
> earlier Cessna and Beech models WERE fitted with paralleling
> regulators which DID NOT compromise independence of the
> two system. Turbine twins have always enjoyed that design
> philosophy.
>
> Here is a sketch on a generator paralleling system
> on a Beech Model 18 I think . . . but typical of
> all dual generator twins of the era.
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Parallel_Aircraft_Generators.
>jpg
>
> This design uses voltage drop in the generator's
> compensation windings as a current shunt. Any difference
> in those two voltages biases the voltage sense windings
> to depress excitation to the generator with the higher
> load while elevating excitation on the lighter loaded
> machine . . . pretty slick.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:15:52 PM PST US
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will
>do this?
>
>
>>However, I have not yet found one in a form factor that would match
>>the rest of the standard toggles in my panel.
>
> What switches are you using?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:27:34 PM PST US
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators
>
>
>>
>>Thanks Bob, now that is amazing engineering, zero PN junctions, must
>>be near bulletproof.
>>Cheers,
>>Brian.
>
> Pretty close. If memory serves, some versions of
> these regulators came with field remover/refurbish/
> replace manuals. They're stone simple in their
> physics of operation and very repairable as long
> as they were not abused.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:10:38 PM PST US
>From: David Carter <david@carter.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will
>do this?
>
>>> What switches are you using?
>
>It appears that Stein's crew is putting these in by default unless I ask
>for something else.
>
>https://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-spst-onoff-fast-on-terminals/
>
>
>---
>David Carter
>david@carter.net
>
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:12:18 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators
>From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
>
>
>I was under the impression that the Diamond twins either had Austro
>(originally Thielert) diesel engines or Lycoming avgas engines. Where
>did Continental come in?
>
>On 6/18/2021 12:48 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
>> In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and has the job of
>> balancing the alternators.
>>
>> Im not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most of the time.
>>
>> The regulators are provided by the engine mfrs (Continental or Austro).
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:34:25 PM PST US
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators
>
>At 02:48 PM 6/18/2021, you wrote:
>
>>In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and
>>has the job of balancing the alternators.
>>
>>I=99m not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most of
> the time.
>
> Is there a .pdf of the alternator wiring you could
> share? Sounds like an interesting system I'd like
> to understand.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
>________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:07:33 PM PST US
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual alternators
>From: "tiyaverma" <ms.tiyaverma@gmail.com>
>
>
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>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502444#502444
>
>
>________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:10:04 PM PST US
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual alternators
>From: "tiyaverma" <ms.tiyaverma@gmail.com>
>
>
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>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502445#502445
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 |
Beware, Link contains virus.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502685#502685
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| Subject: | Re: EGT issues hwo to troubleshoot best |
Hi all,
wanted to update on that case, we did dismantle the plug and remove the
d-sub pins, could see, that part of the braid around the wires was
touching , did use shrinktube to cover the end and now the EGT4 looks
stable.
Thanks for the advices and help.
Cheers Werner
Message 5
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| Subject: | For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 Pro 5G 128GB Unlocked |
$849
The Price is Canadian dollar. Visit Our Website www.esellibuy.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502695#502695
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