---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/02/21: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:26 AM - For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 5G 256GB Original Unlocked $829 (jeiaery) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 (bill@howerton.com) 3. 11:37 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 (user9253) 4. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: EGT issues hwo to troubleshoot best (Werner Schneider) 5. 06:16 PM - For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 Pro 5G 128GB Unlocked $849 (jeiaery) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:12 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 5G 256GB Original Unlocked $829 From: "jeiaery" The Price is Canadian dollar. Visit Our Website www.esellibuy.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502679#502679 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:38 AM PST US From: bill@howerton.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 Check out my presentation https://1drv.ms/u/s!AreStIOQRXvbbS5ZMN0VLbD3CYY?e=dQdIAf Password for archive: 8888 * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > >Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the >two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 21-06-18&Archive=AeroElectric > >Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 21-06-18&Archive=AeroElectric > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 06/18/21: 10 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >Today's Message Index: >---------------------- > > 1. 09:54 AM - Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? (user9253) > 2. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? (David Carter) > 3. 12:49 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Peter Pengilly) > 4. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 5. 01:27 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 6. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? (David Carter) > 7. 02:12 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Kelly McMullen) > 8. 09:34 PM - Re: Dual alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 9. 11:07 PM - Re: Dual alternators (tiyaverma) > 10. 11:10 PM - Re: Dual alternators (tiyaverma) > > > >________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:54:29 AM PST US >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will do this? >From: "user9253" > > >You need a DP3T ON-ON-ON switch. >Mouser and Digikey and others sell them. >https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z2o3Z1z0z28f >https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/toggle-switches/201?s=N4IgjCBcpgzADFUBjKAzAhgGwM4FMAaEAeygG0RYAWeWAdgE4QBdIgBwBcoQBlDgJwCWAOwDmIAL5EATLACsSEKkiZchEuUoAOafABseluy6ReAkeKkgAtNMXKBAV3WlIFBcwlW7bkABEABVgAFRYJIA > >-------- >Joe Gores > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502430#502430 > > >________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:54:47 AM PST US >From: David Carter >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will >do this? > >>> You need a DP3T ON-ON-ON switch. > >Joe - thank you, it appears that would work electrically. It took me a few >minutes to decipher the actions of this switch, but I got there. > >However, I have not yet found one in a form factor that would match the >rest of the standard toggles in my panel. I may have to just live with two >switches. It's not the end of the world, but it's not as elegant. > >Thanks! > >--- >David Carter >david@carter.net > >________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:49:53 PM PST US >From: "Peter Pengilly" >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators > >In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and has the job of >balancing the alternators. > >I=99m not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most >of the time. > >The regulators are provided by the engine mfrs (Continental or Austro). > >The G1000 instrumentation systems use hall effect sensors to detect the >output of each alternator. > >The regulators use a different sensor to do their job. > >Can result in the G1000 saying the loads are unbalanced, which makes >pilots unhappy =93 although voltage is always good. > >I have spent a lot of time troubleshooting, reloading G1000 software and >other stuff to cure what seems to be an imaginary problem. > >Peter > > >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > On Behalf Of Robert L. >Nuckolls, III >Sent: 17 June 2021 18:21 >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators > > > I've imagined, but never tested, that running two alternators that > are feeding a single battery bus would be dominated by current from > one of the alternators. > > My reasoning is that regardless of how closely the charge systems > are matched, small variations would result in a slightly higher > output voltage on one of them. This would then result in an even > lower output from the lower voltage output charge system, > which would reduce its current contribution. > > Yes, until system loads exceeded the capacity > of the alternator with the higher set-point. The > bus voltage sags allowing the lower set-point > alternator to wake up and begin to support the > load. > > This is what happens with a B&C standby alternator > system. #2 alternator is set to some lower-than-nominal > regulation voltage. Should the #1 alternator quit, > voltage sags and #2 wakes up. Similarly, should the > #1 alternator suffer an open winding with subsequent > loss of capacity, the voltage might sag and again, > #2 steps in to take up the slack. > > In both cases, #1 alternator is running maxed out > whether by reason of total system loads =or= loss > of capacity. > >If the above assumptions are accurate, how would it change if >the two alternators shared a single regulator? >(I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m not advocating >this arrangement) > > Cessna 336/337 Models do just that. Beech Barons too. > There is a switch for bringing a second regulator into > service should the first one fail. This philosophy > does produce a system whereby the two alternator > ammeters track each other fairly closely . . . in > my not so humble opinion, a totally misguided practice > to keep pilot's 'happy'. > > There is no practical NEED for balancing the > loads on two alternators assuming (1) either > alternator can carry 100% of ships loads > with (2) demonstrated adequacy of cooling. > > This shade-tree 'paralleling' scheme creates > single points of failure for both alternators. > How this got past in-house DERs is a mystery > to me . . . how the FAA bought it is a . . . > well . . . I won't go there. > >Would the result change If the two alternators were PMA units, >mechanically tied together and producing a sin wave 'in-phase.' > > The engines cannot be synchronized that tightly. > >One final question I've wondered about. How do twin engine planes >with two alternators manage (my assumed) tendency for two alternators >in parallel quickly relying on the larger voltage out unit for most >of the current? > > They parallel fields on a single regulator. > > I designed a true paralleling regulator proposal for Cessna on > the 303 Crusader program thinking that there was a HUGH after market > opportunity to put the system on new and fielded Barons and >Skymasters. > I don't know how the Cessna West was wiring their airplanes. > > In any case, Cessna East didn't bite on the idea so I > was never funded to pursue the design. Twin Generators on > earlier Cessna and Beech models WERE fitted with paralleling > regulators which DID NOT compromise independence of the > two system. Turbine twins have always enjoyed that design > philosophy. > > Here is a sketch on a generator paralleling system > on a Beech Model 18 I think . . . but typical of > all dual generator twins of the era. > >http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Parallel_Aircraft_Generators. >jpg > > This design uses voltage drop in the generator's > compensation windings as a current shunt. Any difference > in those two voltages biases the voltage sense windings > to depress excitation to the generator with the higher > load while elevating excitation on the lighter loaded > machine . . . pretty slick. > > > Bob . . . > > Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes > survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane > out of that stuff?" > > >________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:15:52 PM PST US >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will >do this? > > >>However, I have not yet found one in a form factor that would match >>the rest of the standard toggles in my panel. > > What switches are you using? > > > Bob . . . > > Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes > survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane > out of that stuff?" > >________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:27:34 PM PST US >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators > > >> >>Thanks Bob, now that is amazing engineering, zero PN junctions, must >>be near bulletproof. >>Cheers, >>Brian. > > Pretty close. If memory serves, some versions of > these regulators came with field remover/refurbish/ > replace manuals. They're stone simple in their > physics of operation and very repairable as long > as they were not abused. > > > Bob . . . > > Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes > survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane > out of that stuff?" > >________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:10:38 PM PST US >From: David Carter >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Is there a switch configuration that will >do this? > >>> What switches are you using? > >It appears that Stein's crew is putting these in by default unless I ask >for something else. > >https://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-spst-onoff-fast-on-terminals/ > > >--- >David Carter >david@carter.net > >> > >________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:12:18 PM PST US >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators >From: Kelly McMullen > > >I was under the impression that the Diamond twins either had Austro >(originally Thielert) diesel engines or Lycoming avgas engines. Where >did Continental come in? > >On 6/18/2021 12:48 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote: >> In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and has the job of >> balancing the alternators. >> >> Im not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most of the time. >> >> The regulators are provided by the engine mfrs (Continental or Austro). > > >________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:34:25 PM PST US >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual alternators > >At 02:48 PM 6/18/2021, you wrote: > >>In Diamond twins one regulator is the master and >>has the job of balancing the alternators. >> >>I=99m not actually sure how it achieves that, but works well most of > the time. > > Is there a .pdf of the alternator wiring you could > share? Sounds like an interesting system I'd like > to understand. > > > Bob . . . > > Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes > survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane > out of that stuff?" > >________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:07:33 PM PST US >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual alternators >From: "tiyaverma" > > >Extremely inspired! Everything is extremely open Chandigarh Escorts Service (http://www.rashmibhargav.in/) clear illumination of issues. It contains really certainties. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502444#502444 > > >________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 11:10:04 PM PST US >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual alternators >From: "tiyaverma" > > >Incredible articles and awesome design. Your forum post entry merits the greater part of the positive input Chandigarh Escorts (http://www.chandigarhescortsgirl.com/) it"s been getting. I want to steer about this, for the explanation that it's useful. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502445#502445 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:27 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/18/21 From: "user9253" Beware, Link contains virus. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502685#502685 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EGT issues hwo to troubleshoot best From: Werner Schneider Hi all, wanted to update on that case, we did dismantle the plug and remove the d-sub pins, could see, that part of the braid around the wires was touching , did use shrinktube to cover the end and now the EGT4 looks stable. Thanks for the advices and help. Cheers Werner ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: For Sale New Apple iPhone 12 Pro 5G 128GB Unlocked $849 From: "jeiaery" The Price is Canadian dollar. 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