Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:21 AM - Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (Charlie England)
2. 09:39 AM - Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (bigginsking)
3. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (Neil Parkinson)
4. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (Charlie England)
5. 10:54 AM - Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 04:56 PM - Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (bigginsking)
7. 08:14 PM - Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator (David Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free
zone=2E I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to
help you with a problem=2E
=81=A3Get BlueMail for Android =8B
On Dec 12, 2021, 1:07 AM, at 1:07 AM, bigginsking <bjudge@gmail=2Ecom> wrot
e:
><bjudge@gmail
=2Ecom>
>
>Greetings,
>
>Someone was kind enough to let me know I should po
st something on this
>forum about my new generator=2E
>
>
>Device name: MZ-
30L=2E
>Description: 2=2E6 lb, 30 amp, vacuum pad driven generator for
>exp
erimental aircraft running Lycoming engines=2E
>Company: Monkworkz=2E
>Pric
e: $995=2E
>
>Installation manual and frequently asked questions are on the
website:
>http://monkworkz=2Ecom
>
>A bit of commentary:
>The manual is lo
ng and detailed because this device is different than
>anything else for th
is application=2E
>
>It does everything I need in a single power source=2E
I can run solely on
>this power source from start up to shutdown and I'm at
a towered field
>where long taxis and ground delays are common=2E
>
>I hav
e an IFR RV-8 with dual electronic ignition and I wanted a backup
>power so
urce that wasn't difficult to install, powerful enough to carry
>all of my
typical loads, and light enough to offer a substantial weight
>savings over
a single alternator/dual battery PC625 setup=2E This device
>checks all of
those boxes for me=2E Onboard fuse and current shunt are
>bonuses on top o
f that=2E
>
>RPM vs power output:
>The manual objectively addresses this: ~
900-1000 is where you will get
>15 amps=2E But subjectively, even at 700-80
0 RPM I still get enough power
>for my plane but not 15 amps and there are
periods when I'm slowing
>down that the battery is carrying my system=2E Fr
om the Sacramento Sky
>Ranch Manual, 2nd edition, on idle speed, pg 137: "A
n Idle Speed of
>1100 is necessary with cold oil to create sufficient splas
h=2E" Given
>that, 900 RPM shouldn't be a problem for anyone but you know y
our own
>airplane=2E For me, even doing just a lap or two around the patter
n I
>come back with a charged battery after tower delays, and long taxis ou
t
>and back=2E
>
>Cooling:
>It does require one more cooling duct than a tr
aditional alternator, I
>have measured what the difference is in pressure d
elta between the top
>and bottom of the cylinders and it is on the order of
1=2E7%, and about
>the difference you would see from changing airspeed by
1 knot=2E
>
>Field testing:
>There are ten prototypes in the field=2E Below
is a list of the types of
>planes, and who has them=2E If you know them, p
lease feel free to contact
>them=2E Most have authorized me to put prospect
ive buyers in contact with
>them, so contact me if you would like to talk w
ith them and I'll make
>the connection=2E In three cases I did the installa
tion myself but for
>the rest of these I provided the manual and they were
able to install
>it with very few or no questions=2E In one case, basically
all I heard
>back was "All good so far, no issues" (Paul Rosales)=2E
>
>RV
-8 - Bill Judge (Primary power, alternator is backup)
>Please don't ask me
how long it took to develop this thing=2E
>
>Tailwind - 2021 Raspet Awardee
[google that] (sole means of power)
>Are you sure you want to be associate
d with me?
>
>Harmon Rocket - Adam Pontius (Backup, dual electronic ignitio
n)
>Flawless=2E
>
>RV-4 - Paul Kessel (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
>C
ompletely good! If you want to use me as a reference for people to
>call I
am fine with that as well!
>
>RV-4 Dave Anders (Backup, dual electronic ign
ition)
>I think you=C3=A2=C2=C2=99ve got a winner=2E
>
>RV-3 - Wheeler N
orth (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
>Don't you want me to pay for this?
>
>RV-10 - Rich Jankowski (Backup, IFR platform)
>RV10, LYC IO-540 BU DC g
enerator performs flawlessly! Easy to install!
>
>RV-10 - Joe Waltz (Backup
, IFR platform)
>Glad to report that all testing has gone well=2E
>
>Lancai
r IVP - Bob Pastusek (LOBO founder, long time Maintenance
>officer, 28V ver
sion on a continental TSIO 550, backup power for an IFR
>platform)
>
>N437R
P, a Lancair IV-P based in Ft Worth, TX=2E Bob Knuckles =C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cm
odel
>Z=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D dual 28 volt electrical system=2E The alternator
normally runs in
>=C3=A2=C2=C2=9Con-line standby=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D mode
at an output voltage just less than the
>primary alternator=2E In this mode
it outputs 1-2 amps continuously to
>aircraft systems=2E If the primary al
ternator fails or is taken off-line,
>the standby automatically picks up th
e full steady-state power
>requirement of 14-15 amps during daylight ops an
d 18-20 amps at night=2E
>I could not be happier with it!!
>
>RV-6 - Paul R
osales (backup power)
>
>I can=C3=A2=C2=C2=99t thank you enough for this
and giving me great great great
>peace of mind! Rosie
>
>Letting someone e
lse put something in your airplane is a huge decision=2E
>All of these guys
volunteered and I'm incredibly grateful for that=2E Big
>thanks to all of
them=2E They are all still running them=2E
>
>I see two use cases for the M
Z-30L:
>1=2E Primary power for a magneto ignition day VFR plane where minim
um
>weight is a priority=2E
>2=2E Backup power for planes that are dependen
t on electrical power
>whether that's dual electronic iginition or IFR=2E
>
>I think that the MZ-30L can do both well in almost every case, but
>every
application is going to vary and have compromises: Such as
>spending $995
vs $100 at autozone or one vs two 3/4 inch ducts that
>probably represent a
1% change in cooling capacity=2E
>
>Please contact me if you're interested
: bill@monkworkz=2Ecom or
>info@monkworkz=2Ecom=2E I want to get an underst
anding of each user's
>application before I sell them a unit and make sure
that it is right
>for them=2E My website will eventually support online pur
chases=2E
>
>Here is the boilerplate info about the unit:
>
>Monkworkz, LLC
is proud to introduce the MZ-30L(Patent Pending) for
>Lycoming and similar
engines=2E A clean sheet design to aircraft power
>that leverages the most
recent advancements in power electronics and
>electromechanical machinery
=2E The MZ-30L is a 30 amp, 3 pound, vacuum
>pad driven generator for 14 vo
lt electrical systems=2E It can be used in
>backup or primary power applica
tions and is optimized for easy
>installation on experimental aircraft=2E
>
>The MZ-30L has several features that simplify installation and add
>capab
ility, including:
>Self-exciting: no external phantom current needed to gen
erate power=2E
>Fast (~5 ms) electronic current limiting backed up with an
integrated
>fuse=2E
>Integrated current shunt: read current from a shunt p
rovided with the
>device=2E
>Integrated current measurement with proportion
al voltage output: 0-4=2E4
>volts that scales linearly with current out for
input to EFIS/EIS
>systems or other device=2E
>Compact design with a compa
ct shear coupling: Generator depth is less
>than 4 inches from the vacuum p
ad face=2E Diameter is less than 2=2E5
>inches=2E
>Intelligent integration
with other power sources: in a backup power
>application the MZ-30L activel
y monitors bus voltage and comes on line
>~200 ms after bus voltage drops b
elow spec=2E
>Remote Enable: Allows installation of pilot operated switch t
o
>enable/disable the device=2E
>
>*Also available: 28 V versions, and vers
ions for Continental engines
>where the vacuum pad RPM is 1=2E5 times the c
rankshaft RPM=2E
>~15 amps available at 1000 rpm on engines where the vacuu
m pad RPM is
>1=2E3 times the crankshaft RPM, 30 amps available above 1800
crank RPM
>
>--------
>Bill Judge
>N84WJ, RV-8
>
>
>Read this topic onl
ine here:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp?p=505229#505
229
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
Ceengland wrote:
> 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free zone.
I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help you
with a problem.
Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about anything
new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that postings of
this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I mentioned someone from
this list suggested that I post here because what I have developed is useful
for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated tchotchkes here, this is something
that could provide utility to the subscribers here.
Matt Dralle wrote:
> - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505232#505232
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
Well I think your product looks amazing ! Im glad you posted it !
> On 12 Dec 2021, at 17:40, bigginsking <bjudge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ceengland wrote:
>> 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free
zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help
you with a problem.
>
>
> Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about anything
new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that postings
of this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I mentioned someone
from this list suggested that I post here because what I have developed is useful
for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated tchotchkes here, this is something
that could provide utility to the subscribers here.
>
>
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>> - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
>> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
>> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
>> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
>> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
>> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
>> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
>> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
>> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
>
>
> --------
> Bill Judge
> N84WJ, RV-8
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505232#505232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message.
To be fair, your most recent previous post seems to have been about 3 1/2
years ago, and your name/email didn't look like a regular, frequently seen
member.
'My new generator' sounded to me like it was a product you bought &
installed on your airplane, leading up to a pirep or a request for help
troubleshooting; not a product you're trying to market to the list.
The long list of testimonials read like the email version of an
infomercial. You could have stated directly that you had a new product for
sale that might be of interest to members, and we could get full info from
your website. Two or three sentences & those interested would have gone
looking, and everyone else could have hit delete.
Shame on me I suppose, for being gullible enough to read all the way to the
testimonials before realizing that I was reading an ad instead of a request
for help.
;-)
Charlie
On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 11:43 AM bigginsking <bjudge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ceengland wrote:
> > 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an
> advertising-free zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I
> might be able to help you with a problem.
>
>
> Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about
> anything new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that
> postings of this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I
> mentioned someone from this list suggested that I post here because what I
> have developed is useful for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated
> tchotchkes here, this is something that could provide utility to the
> subscribers here.
>
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
> > - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
> > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
>
>
> --------
> Bill Judge
> N84WJ, RV-8
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505232#505232
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
At 07:20 AM 12/12/2021, you wrote:
>'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free
>zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be
>able to help you with a problem.
>
>Get <https://bluemail.me>BlueMail for Android
>On Dec 12, 2021, at 1:07 AM, bigginsking
><<mailto:bjudge@gmail.com>bjudge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Greetings,
>
>
>Someone was kind enough to let me know I should post something on
>this forum about my new generator.
<snip>
Don't know that his post is so much 'advertising' as it is
useful information for future planning. This product is a
contemporary offspring of the PM 'dynamo' style alternators.
A sibling of the family of alternators launched into OBAM
Aircraft by B&C back in the dark ages.
This device has the look and smell of having benefited from
a lot of thought and hard work. It's a 3-phase machine which
gives it a leg up on watts/cu-cm. Also, it no doubt
benefits from some improvements in magnetics. The addition
of forced air cooling suggests a trade-off for using
more turns of smaller wire to improve low rpm
performance at the expense of heat rejection in wires
that drive the cooling requirement. It's compact
size will also call for increased attention to
cooling.
Note: back in the early days of shift from vacuum
tubes to transistors, many installers were somewhat
perplexed by the need for cooling plenums on a full
stack of new radios. While the new kids did
use less energy from the bus, they were also MUCH
more compact . . . i.e. watts/cu-cm was often as
high in a solid state radio as some tube types.
The transistors back then were less tolerant of
high temperatures too . . . a condition that pretty
much disappeared.
The supporting literature seems well crafted. The
only thing I missed was an RPM vs. available current
at bus voltage.
I note a feature in the regulator for sensing internal
temperature of the alternator. I'm guessing it's
to effect protective shut down or dial-back of output
current in rare cases of low cooling air and high
current draw. The rectifier/regulator also offers
some interesting system integration features.
This 'new kid' on the block seems worthy of your
consideration for configuring your ship's hardware.
If anyone has personal observations or knowledge
about this product's induction into the society
of civilized aircraft systems, please share them
with the group!
Bill, thanks for the heads-up! No sweat Charlie
. . . 'he done good'.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
Thanks Bob!
For sure using neodymium magnets rather than ferrite makes the power density higher.
The next issue is handling the variable voltage from the generator, and
thanks to advancements in power electronics that is something that can be done
now at a scale that is interesting for this application.
Below 1800 RPM it will current limit at 15 amps, it does this by reducing the output
voltage. At ~1000 RPM you can get around 15 amps, but maybe at 13.5V, at
around 1100 or so you will get 15 amps. Over 1800 RPM it will limit at 30 amps.
The thermistor on the generator serves as a "guard rail" to prevent destroying
the device if the cooling isn't installed as directed by the installation manual.
there are also three thermistors on the circuit board of the regulator as
well.
Happy to answer any questions.
Thanks,
Bill
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505236#505236
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
Bill,
Thanks for the post about your new alternator. I appreciated it. Now if I
come across an installation I have a better chance of recognizing it.
These forums and Sport Aviation are about my only sources for OBAM aircraft.
Quick question that probably has very little to do with any practical
aspect: Why is the magnet on the outside? I was just involved with a PM
alternator that seems like the opposite of yours:
[image: image.png]
The magnet turns inside the housing. I think this one outputs about half
of what you're advertising, but I don't know if that's a function of the
layout or something else. The physical size is about 2/3 of yours and I
think it turns about twice the speed.
Just curious,
Dave
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