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1. 03:25 PM - Re: Residue on negative battery pole (Werner Schneider)
2. 06:49 PM - Re: Starter fuse blew x3 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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| Subject: | Re: Residue on negative battery pole |
SO it took me some time over the weekend to react sorry.
On 20.01.2022 18:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Honestly, it just looks like dirt, to me. Wipe it off & see if you
>> see any cracks/voids in the plastic or the sealant around the
>> terminal. I'd have expected any corrosion to start at the terminal
>> itself, and taper away from it; it looks like that stuff is in the
>> inside corner of the case material.
>>
>> Charlie
>
> =C2- Agreed.=C2- The seal between battery posts and interior chemist
ry
> =C2- is usually pretty good in AGM batteries. Also, the
> =C2- stuff is a strange color for battery corrosion product.
I cleaned it off and checked under a magnifying glass but can not see
any cracks/voids, the same stuff was as well on the screw and the cable
shoe. Looks yellow like sulfur.
>
> =C2- Normally a compromised seal causes corrosion to
> =C2- encircle the whole post
>
> https://mechanicbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/battery-terminal-cor
rosion.jpg
>
>
> =C2- if the products of oxidation are just from battery
> =C2- internal chemistry, the color is dingy white. If
> =C2- the corrosion has spread to include some terminal
> =C2- materials or wire, you'll get some blue-green
> =C2- stuff too.
>
> =C2- One good check is to pour a bit of water saturated
> =C2- with some baking soda on it. If you get a good 'fizz'
> =C2- then there's products of electrolyte corrosion in the
> =C2- residue . . . otherwise it's something else.
had to buy baking soda first and did try it out seems no reaction at all
got a brownish paste.
>
> =C2- According to an 'old' data sheet on this product . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-x1220p.pdf
> <http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-x1220p.pdf>
Panasonic dropped many of their types, looks like they get out of VLRA
business.
The LC-XC1222 is flagged as end of life=C2-=C2- (XC was their notation
for
Cycle long life type)
with that same form factor only the
LC-P1220 15mOhm
LC-PD1217 17mOhm
are available
I found as well two interesting documents, a VRLA white paper about
internal resistance and VRLA Handbook with all current models.
found them here (scroll down)
https://industry.panasonic.eu/products/energy-building/batteries/battery-c
ells/secondary-batteries-rechargeable-batteries/valve-regulated-lead-acid-
batteries
On the US site I found two different 17Ah batteries (all flaged as
discontinued):
Cycle and trickle use LC-RD1217P=C2- 12mOhm
Long life trickle use LC-PD1217=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 17mOhm
Looks I should search for a cycle use battery as that one has the lower
internal resistance
Or swap to an Odysee as they claim 7mOhm for the same form factor
>
> <http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-x1220p.pdf>=C2
-
> the battery should support a 3a load for something on the
> =C2- order of 6 hours. How old is the battery? If it seemed
> =C2- weak cranking the engine, then it may well be demonstrating
> =C2- high resistance and reduced capacity.
>
> =C2- If you can get your hands on a 'real' battery tester
> =C2- like this
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.html
>
> <https://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.htm
l>=C2-
> make sure the battery fully charged (on maintainer until
> =C2- the charge light goes out), then load the battery down
> =C2- to 9 Volts and hold it there for 15 seconds (the
> =C2- harbor freight tester has a handy timer for this purpose).
>
> =C2- This battery will produce a 15 seconds crank at better than
> =C2- 500A when new, 300 or less along with your flagging cap-check
> =C2- suggests nearing end of life.
>
Living in Switzerland it's not so easy to get such a unit (all this high
amp testers are 500-1000 $!!) I did source a 100A one (see link below),
so will test soon (ordered via a friend in the US that 500A "clearance"
model for the future :)
https://www.harborfreight.com/100a-612v-battery-load-tester-61747.html
for 2.5x the price :(
It's strange, so far these batteries lasted always around 5 years, this
one is not yet a year old :(
On 20.01.2022 18:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Honestly, it just looks like dirt, to me. Wipe it off & see if you
>> see any cracks/voids in the plastic or the sealant around the
>> terminal. I'd have expected any corrosion to start at the terminal
>> itself, and taper away from it; it looks like that stuff is in the
>> inside corner of the case material.
>>
>> Charlie
>
> =C2- Agreed.=C2- The seal between battery posts and interior chemist
ry
> =C2- is usually pretty good in AGM batteries. Also, the
> =C2- stuff is a strange color for battery corrosion product.
>
> =C2- Normally a compromised seal causes corrosion to
> =C2- encircle the whole post
>
> https://mechanicbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/battery-terminal-cor
rosion.jpg
>
>
> =C2- if the products of oxidation are just from battery
> =C2- internal chemistry, the color is dingy white. If
> =C2- the corrosion has spread to include some terminal
> =C2- materials or wire, you'll get some blue-green
> =C2- stuff too.
>
> =C2- One good check is to pour a bit of water saturated
> =C2- with some baking soda on it. If you get a good 'fizz'
> =C2- then there's products of electrolyte corrosion in the
> =C2- residue . . . otherwise it's something else.
>
> =C2- According to an 'old' data sheet on this product . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-x1220p.pdf
>
> <http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Panasonic/lc-x1220p.pdf>=C2
-
> the battery should support a 3a load for something on the
> =C2- order of 6 hours. How old is the battery? If it seemed
> =C2- weak cranking the engine, then it may well be demonstrating
> =C2- high resistance and reduced capacity.
>
> =C2- If you can get your hands on a 'real' battery tester
> =C2- like this
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.html
>
> <https://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.htm
l>=C2-
> make sure the battery fully charged (on maintainer until
> =C2- the charge light goes out), then load the battery down
> =C2- to 9 Volts and hold it there for 15 seconds (the
> =C2- harbor freight tester has a handy timer for this purpose).
>
> =C2- This battery will produce a 15 seconds crank at better than
> =C2- 500A when new, 300 or less along with your flagging cap-check
> =C2- suggests nearing end of life.
>
>
> =C2- Bob . . .
>
> =C2- Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> =C2- survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> =C2- out of that stuff?"
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starter fuse blew x3 |
>Joe, I'm familiar with the instructions for
>powering SlickStart from the heavy terminal.
>Years back I had a bad experience doing
>that.=C2 The (new-fangled at the time) permanent
>magnet starter would make enough voltage
>spooling down that the retards stayed active.
>The engine would sputter but never
>start.=C2 Since then I've=C2 just always wired=C2
>them from the control side.=C2 Works well.=C2 I'd
>love to hear from others using a PM starter and
>SlickStart, wired per the instructions.=C2 Tough
>lesson though, and one that's stayed with me.
Interesting. The patent wiring shows powering the SS from
the same source as starter contactor coil. Given the
relatively 'delicate' nature of the electronics in
the SS, I would think that the more benign energy source
would be preferred.
I can perceive no advantage for powering from the
motor side of the starter contactor.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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