Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery box. (Bob Verwey)
2. 01:54 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery box. (Bob Verwey)
3. 02:21 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery box. (Stuart Hutchison)
4. 04:36 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery box. (C&K)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery bo (user9253)
6. 08:05 AM - Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the battery box. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:00 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on |
the battery box.
..of course when someone else points that out it makes perfect
sense...lol..thanks!
On Tue, 01 Mar 2022, 09:54 Stuart Hutchison, <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au
>
wrote:
> G=99day Bob,
>
> In anticipation of the in-rush and persistent current through that wire
> during prolonged starting, a pretty large gauge fusible link would be
> needed do you really want that much current available at the si
te of a
> short hoping the large slow-blow fuse will eventually isolate power?
> Weight is obviously at a premium, but it seems to me like a solenoid and
> master switch are a much safer bet.
>
> Kind regards, Stuart
>
> On 1 Mar 2022, at 5:02 pm, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sort of related query.
>
> A J3 Cub is being converted to accommodate an 0-200 engine with electric
> start.
> The battery box is behind the baggage compartment, and for the sake of
> simplicity, there is no master solenoid back there, so there is a hot #4
> wire all the way top the firewall.
>
> The only electrical load is the radio and intercom, for which there is a
> switch and circuit breaker.
>
> I want to add a fuse of some kind at the battery box to prevent a "shower
> of sparks" welding event if there is an incident which causes the steel
> bits to cut into the hot battery cable.
>
> What is the likely current draw on a typical lightweight starter for an
> 0-200, and what is the suggested "fuse " mechanism?
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on |
the battery box.
But....the master solenoid is actuated by a negative wire right? So now if
the thinner switching wire is earthed forceably to the fuselage, then rhe
fat wire is live? What am I missing?
On Tue, 01 Mar 2022, 11:01 Bob Verwey, <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
> ..of course when someone else points that out it makes perfect
> sense...lol..thanks!
>
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022, 09:54 Stuart Hutchison, <
> stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
>
>> G=99day Bob,
>>
>> In anticipation of the in-rush and persistent current through that wire
>> during prolonged starting, a pretty large gauge fusible link would be
>> needed do you really want that much current available at the s
ite of a
>> short hoping the large slow-blow fuse will eventually isolate power?
>> Weight is obviously at a premium, but it seems to me like a solenoid and
>> master switch are a much safer bet.
>>
>> Kind regards, Stuart
>>
>> On 1 Mar 2022, at 5:02 pm, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sort of related query.
>>
>> A J3 Cub is being converted to accommodate an 0-200 engine with electric
>> start.
>> The battery box is behind the baggage compartment, and for the sake of
>> simplicity, there is no master solenoid back there, so there is a hot #4
>> wire all the way top the firewall.
>>
>> The only electrical load is the radio and intercom, for which there is a
>> switch and circuit breaker.
>>
>> I want to add a fuse of some kind at the battery box to prevent a "showe
r
>> of sparks" welding event if there is an incident which causes the steel
>> bits to cut into the hot battery cable.
>>
>> What is the likely current draw on a typical lightweight starter for an
>> 0-200, and what is the suggested "fuse " mechanism?
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on |
the battery box.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on |
the battery box.
Exactly. A fuse would not really add any safety since the resistance of
the contactor coil limits the possible current to less than 1 amp which
would not warm up even a small gauge wire.
Ken
On 01-Mar.-22 5:20 a.m., Stuart Hutchison wrote:
> No, the master contactor interrupts the positive side of the circuit
> between the battery positive lead and the main power feeder wire.
> The Master Switch connects a thin positive wire from an insulated
> post on the contactor body to ground when closed, energising the
> master contactor solenoid. Obviously this small wire needs to be
> physically protected, but Ive never seen that wire fused (I could be
> wrong) potentially because it is small enough to burn through
> without starting a fire. You certainly wouldnt want nuisance CB or
> fuse trips on Master Switch power.
>
>> On 1 Mar 2022, at 8:54 pm, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> But....the master solenoid is actuated by a negative wire right? So
>> now if the thinner switching wire is earthed forceably to the
>> fuselage, then rhe fat wire is live? What am I missing?
>>
>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022, 11:01 Bob Verwey, <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ..of course when someone else points that out it makes perfect
>> sense...lol..thanks!
>>
>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2022, 09:54 Stuart Hutchison,
>> <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Gday Bob,
>>
>> In anticipation of the in-rush and persistent current through
>> that wire during prolonged starting, a pretty large gauge
>> fusible link would be needed do you really want that much
>> current available at the site of a short hoping the large
>> slow-blow fuse will eventually isolate power? Weight is
>> obviously at a premium, but it seems to me like a solenoid
>> and master switch are a much safer bet.
>>
>> Kind regards, Stuart
>>
>>> On 1 Mar 2022, at 5:02 pm, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sort of related query.
>>>
>>> A J3 Cub is being converted to accommodate an 0-200 engine
>>> with electric start.
>>> The battery box is behind the baggage compartment, and for
>>> the sake of simplicity, there is no master solenoid back
>>> there, so there is a hot #4 wire all the way top the firewall.
>>>
>>> The only electrical load is the radio and intercom, for
>>> which there is a switch and circuit breaker.
>>>
>>> I want to add a fuse of some kind at the battery box to
>>> prevent a "shower of sparks" welding event if there is an
>>> incident which causes the steel bits to cut into the hot
>>> battery cable.
>>>
>>> What is the likely current draw on a typical lightweight
>>> starter for an 0-200, and what is the suggested "fuse "
>>> mechanism?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on the |
battery bo
No fuse or fuselink of any type should be installed in the starter motor circuit
because
fuses have resistance which will drop voltage and limit current to the starter
motor.
Simplicity is a worthwhile goal. However, safety is more important. In the
event of smoke in the cockpit or an imminent forced landing, the pilot should
have the ability to shut off all electrical power at the source (battery).
Install a battery contactor.
Imagine this: The pilot makes a pretty good landing after the engine quits.
But gasoline is leaking and wires are arcing and sparking. The pilot is unable
to exit the aircraft for some reason. He wishes that he could shut off the electricity.
Install a battery contactor.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506182#506182
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: WAS: Sizing a B-lead ANL now "master fuse" on |
the battery box.
At 12:02 AM 3/1/2022, you wrote:
>Sort of related query.
>
>A J3 Cub is being converted to accommodate an
>0-200 engine with electric start.=C2 =C2
>The battery box is behind the baggage
>compartment, and for the sake of simplicity,
>there is no master solenoid back there, so there
>is a hot #4 wire all the way top the firewall.=C2
>
>The only electrical load is the radio and
>intercom, for which there is a switch and circuit breaker.
>
>I want to add a fuse of some kind at the battery
>box to prevent a "shower of sparks" welding
>event if there is an incident which causes the
>steel bits to cut into the hot battery cable.=C2
>
>What is the likely current draw on a typical
>lightweight starter for an 0-200, and what is the suggested "fuse "
mechanism?
Does this airplane have an alterantor?
Are their any concerns for dealing with a
'stuck' starter contactor?
Have you crafted a power distribution
diagram that offers the total picture
of your proposed system?
What's the down-side of having a legacy
battery contactor at the battery location
with a switched fat-wire going to a starter
contactor on firewall and a fuse-block
to offer protected feeders to appliances?
The only circuit protection needed are
fuses in the fuse block and perhaps
a fusible link if you're going to carry
some engine driven power source.
What size/style battery is being
considered?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 7
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full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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