Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (David Carter)
2. 07:11 AM - Come va di solito la tua giornata? (Kvincici)
3. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Charlie England)
5. 07:50 PM - Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (andymeyer)
6. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
Why not base the design on Bob's Z-101? Seems that you are recreating the
wheel.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498198&highlight=&sid=b64f62254568037b48c88b877d06b539
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:09 PM andymeyer <meyerkc135@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Bob,
>
> The SD-8 concerns me 'cause if I lose the electric system, I lose the
> engine which means I won't get enough power out of the SD8 (low RPM) to run
> the ignitions to restart.
>
> Got an option that makes sense, or can you talk me into the SD8?
>
> I still wonder about master switch failure - I think I have that covered
> in my design above. Engine, monitoring, attitude and GPS.
>
> Andy
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506749#506749
>
>
> --
---
David Carter
david@carter.net
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| Subject: | Come va di solito la tua giornata? |
Come tutte le persone, mi alzo la mattina, vado al lavoro e torno a casa dopo il
lavoro. L'unica differenza che mi sono fatto una grande palestra - e in essa
posso far uscire la mia bestia. Mi aiuta ad alleviare lo stress. E grazie alla
nuova attrezzatura e alle pillole winstrol originale https://anabolizzanti-naturali.it/prodotto/stanozolol-injection-winstrol-50-mg-aburaihan-ani0137.html
si migliora ancora. La forza nei muscoli aumenta, il grasso scompare pi velocemente
e il corpo diventa molto tonico.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506752#506752
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
At 09:08 PM 5/12/2022, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>The SD-8 concerns me 'cause if I lose the electric system, I lose
>the engine which means I
>won't get enough power out of the SD8 (low RPM) to run the ignitions
>to restart.
What is the condition(s) that would cause
you to 'loose' the electrical system?
This is what FMEA is all about. Go through
a thought exercise that considers 'what if'
for any single failure . . . switch broke . . .
wire falls off terminal . . . pump gets
asthma . . . regulator quits . . . etc. ect.
The process is pretty simple:
First deduce the ways in which the part
can fail.
Terminal falls off, regulator goes
silent, regulator goes wild, bulb
burns out, handle falls out of switch,
contactor sticks closed, etc. etc.
How will you become aware that the failure
has occurred?
Something quits working . . . something
wildly mis-behaves . . .
Is the failure pre-flight detectable?
Yes? Make sure it's on your checklist.
No? What are your periodic inspection plans
for assessing that system's airworthiness?
How does this failure affect the probable
outcome of your flight?
The vast majority of failures on airplanes
are no big deal . . . FBOs make their
living fixing no big deals . . . well . . .
it's usually a big deal to the wallet but
at lease your airplane isn't bent.
If koss of that feature poses risk to your
maintaining order in the cockpit, what are your
plan-b protocols for dealing with the failure?
Check out the PowerPoint slides for my
weekend seminars at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Seminar_PP_Slides/
. . . in particular, the packet on Failure
Tolerance
Page 10 illustrates my personal plan-b
as an airplane renter . . . with the whole
panel gone dark, it was my plan-b to get
to where I was originally headed.
Those slides speak to a constellation of
architectures tailored to the builder's
design goals and project features.
ARCHITECTURE and judicious accessories scattered
about the system should be your refinement of
the plan-b protocols based on your FMEA.
Do you have a copy of the 'Connection? If
not, you can download it . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/AEC12A_PDF.zip
Appendix Z in the bound book is NOT the latest
configuration for all drawings. See
https://tinyurl.com/y26qe4y9
for the latest iterations. As others have noted,
take particular not of Z101. This architecture
is a kind of melting pot of drawing refinement
and discussions here on the List over the past
30 years or so.
It's a tinker-toy/leggo approach to system architecture
decisions . . . pick and choose which bus structures
make sense for your project. But note that even
with a FULL UP, nearly bullet-proof system, all
features and functions are managed with but three
switches and one breaker.
I would strongly encourage using that orphaned
vacuum pump pad for something exceedingly useful
with a very low cost of ownership compared to
adding ANY standby batteries to your system . . .
you DO plan to maintain an airworthy main battery . . .
no?
>I still wonder about master switch failure - I think I have that
>covered in my design above. Engine, monitoring, attitude and GPS.
Sift thru the functionality of features in
Z101 . . . suppose the battery contactor
DOES open. How will you know it happened and
what's the protocol for managing the event?
All this may seem like a LOT of work . . . yeah . . .
you're right. But in 50 years of reading dark-n-stormy-
night stories in the aviation rags I've yet to
encounter a pilot who demonstrated an understanding
of the function and limitations of his ship's
electrical system.
If he HAD understood better, he probably would have
not experienced the SURVIVABLE event that allowed
him to write the story.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
On 5/12/2022 9:08 PM, andymeyer wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> The SD-8 concerns me 'cause if I lose the electric system, I lose the engine
which means I won't get enough power out of the SD8 (low RPM) to run the ignitions
to restart.
>
> Got an option that makes sense, or can you talk me into the SD8?
>
> I still wonder about master switch failure - I think I have that covered in my
design above. Engine, monitoring, attitude and GPS.
>
> Andy
I'm not following the question. The alternator(s) are not participants
in starting the engine. Any electronic ignition is operating on the
battery until the engine is running and spinning the alternator fast
enough to generate current.
I think Bob was asking, why not run a backup alternator instead of a
backup battery. Assuming ~2 amps draw per ignition, you'd get around an
hour of operation from the ignition battery, but a backup alternator
lasts through fuel exhaustion.
--
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
David,
Yes - looked at the Z101 - wasn't in my old book - or at least I missed it. Modifying
it to use the rectifier to support the E bus.
Bob,
The failure that comes to mind is the master switch opens or shorts and pops the
fuse link for some reason (failed connection, failed relay, etc...) EBus solves
this - gets me on the ground with an attitude, engine monitoring and GPS.
Alternator failure, regulator failure, OV trip, etc... that won't recover - EBus
gets me on the ground.
Battery failure - very low risk, but my AV30 stays alive and the second ignition
battery keeps the fan spinning.
EBus is checkable by flipping it on before the master...
I've walked through most of the failures... I didn't pull out my old Douglas FMEA
forms or calculated Risk Probability Severity numbers, but I ran through most
of the things going wrong, how to detect, and what to do about it. Any I'm
forgetting that would take this architecture down?
I'm thinking the only things I need on the essential bus are the AV30E, the GPS,
and Engine monitor - a very paltry load.
I've looked at the pad mount alternators - I'm just really tight to the firewall
in my Long EZ. BandC oil filter adapter required a recess in the firewall to
fit. A 5aH battery will get me ~an hour of flight time on a single ignition if
needed. Considering a 12aH LiFePo battery, and monitor it frequently...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506756#506756
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
>>Andy
>I'm=C2 not following the question. The
>alternator(s) are not participants in starting
>the engine. Any electronic ignition is operating
>on the battery until the engine is running and
>spinning the alternator fast enough to generate current.
>
>I think Bob was asking, why not run a backup
>alternator instead of a backup battery. Assuming
>~2 amps draw per ignition, you'd get around an
>hour of operation from the ignition battery, but
>a backup alternator lasts through fuel exhaustion.
Yeah . . .
Just for grins, let's test the utility of Z101 for
your project. See:
https://tinyurl.com/y3yyjjqp
Let's make this a List exercise to go over the
possibilities. If you were to use the
cited drawing as is, what loads would you
assign to each bus?
Will you need brownout boosting? Are
you interested in being able to fire up
some radios in pre-flight? Let's get
all your proposed electro-whizzies
lit up on some bus.
Then let's see what might be eliminated
for simplicity/cost without sacrificing
untility.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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