Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:22 AM - Chi ha usato Stanozolol, cosa puoi dire? (Kvincici)
2. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:57 AM - Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (andymeyer)
4. 11:14 AM - ForSale: Headset extension (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:20 PM - Hangar Electrical Work (William Hunter)
7. 12:40 PM - Re: Hangar Electrical Work (Rowland Carson)
8. 01:18 PM - Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (user9253)
9. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Charlie England)
10. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 06:06 PM - Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... (Eric Page)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Chi ha usato Stanozolol, cosa puoi dire? |
Questa la prima volta che usi gli steroidi, lo prendo? Qui sul sito puoi trovare
non solo stanozololo prezzo https://steroidilegalionline.it/negozio/iniezione-di-steroidi/stanozolol/
, ma anche informazioni dettagliate sull'uso di questo
steroide. Fai iniezioni e i loro effetti durano per un periodo di tempo pi
lungo. Tu stesso sentirai un'ondata di energia e l'eccellente lavoro dei muscoli
che forniscono.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506758#506758
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
At 09:49 PM 5/13/2022, you wrote:
>
>David,
>Yes - looked at the Z101 - wasn't in my old book - or at least I
>missed it. Modifying it to use the rectifier to support the E bus.
>
>Bob,
>The failure that comes to mind is the master switch opens or shorts
>and pops the fuse link for some reason (failed connection, failed
>relay, etc...) EBus solves this - gets me on the ground with an
>attitude, engine monitoring and GPS.
>Alternator failure, regulator failure, OV trip, etc... that won't
>recover - EBus gets me on the ground.
>Battery failure - very low risk . . .
But can you make it zero?
>. . . but my AV30 stays alive and the second ignition battery keeps
>the fan spinning.
. . . yup . . . those are all FMEA bullet points
each presenting its own cause/effect/probability
factors.
Very well . . . sounds like you have a plan.
Please include ALL batteries in your periodic
airworthiness verification protocol.
Fly comfortably
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
Bob,
Thanks! I've got other builders watching our learnings here closely so... :)
I added the appropriate loads to where they need to go.
Main bus: (breaker size)
Pitot: 20A
Lighting: 10A
Boost pump: 5A
Starter Relay
Avionics Bus is:
Garmin stuff is 15 A (incl Audio panel)
AXP 322 + Stratux = 5A
ELT 1A
E Bus:
AV30E - 2A
Engine Monitor - 2A
IFD - 17.5A (GPX+Comm)
No need for brown-out boosting if I put the Avionics master in, Yes, if I don't.
The Garmin items that I'd want brownout protection on all have internal diode
or'd inputs so I can put the brownout booster on power #2 and it'll keep it
awake. Same with the Avidyne IFD. AV30 will stay awake with it's internal battery.
Engine monitor runs down to ~4.5 volts on the input. Okay, you just talked
me into brownout boosting - booster + a few wires - simple. (Fuse to the booster,
then do I also fuse each output line of the booster?
I modified the diagram to two versions - one dual alternator, one dual battery.
I was wondering why all of the relays - can we not get good switches to handle
these loads, or is the relay + small switch + connections(7) more reliable than
a higher power switch + connections (2)?
Dual Alt Preflight:
Pre-flight... EBus on - check that the AV30 wakes up. Master on, EBus off.
Run up... Eng Bus Alt feed on, Master off - make sure engine keeps running. But,
everything else goes dark for this check???
Aux Alt to middle position, master off, make sure things don't go dark, check voltage,
Aux alt up, check voltage rise (>13, but need higher RPM with SD8), aux
alt to middle, Main alt on, Aux alt off, recheck voltage > 13.0
Annually, load test battery.
Major electrical failure: (failed master, shorted master bus, loose wire to master...)
Everything goes dark and quiet except battery bus and AV30.
Aux Alt on. E Bus wakes up and starts powering up.
Mixture - cut-off. Eng Aux bus on. Mixture rich. things get noisy again.
Dual Batt pre-flight
Pre-flight... EBus on - check that the AV30 wakes up. Master on, EBus off.
Run-up... Ignition - test #2 on both normal and standby power. Voltage > 13.0
Annually, load test both batteries.
Major electrical failure:
Everything goes dark except battery bus and AV30.
EBus alt on, IFD comes back up. monitor voltage on main battery. AV30, IFD and
engine monitoring remains.
When main battery is < 6V, then move ignition #2 to middle position - #2 battery.
5Ah, ~2 hours of flight time with AV30 battery and engine monitoring. Engine
monitoring dies around 4.5 volts.[/b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506760#506760
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/z101x_andymeyerproject_dualaltr1_207.png
Message 4
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| Subject: | ForSale: Headset extension |
Digging thru the 'archives' looking for something
I have yet to find, I ran across this rather unique
tool which is of no current or future use to me.
Last time I used this was from attop an aerostand at
the rudder tip of a Beechjet, hammering on a pitch
trim actuator while communicating with my associate
in the cockpit.
The thing is on the order of 60 feet long. Came
in really handy a dozen or so times over my tenure
at Beech.
Would like to get $40 plus postage for it. Thought
I would offer it to the List before I post it on
eBay. Earliest time-stamp takes it.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
At 12:56 PM 5/14/2022, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks! I've got other builders watching our learnings here closely so... :)
>
>I added the appropriate loads to where they need to go.
>Main bus: (breaker size)
>Pitot: 20A
>Lighting: 10A
>Boost pump: 5A
>Starter Relay
>
>Avionics Bus is:
>Garmin stuff is 15 A (incl Audio panel)
>AXP 322 + Stratux = 5A
>ELT 1A
>
>E Bus:
>AV30E - 2A
>Engine Monitor - 2A
>IFD - 17.5A (GPX+Comm)
<snip>
Very well. I'll let you guys 'fill in the blanks'.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Hangar Electrical Work |
Hi All.
So this question is about a hangar at an airport albeit a slight off
topic question for the multi-knowledgeable among us...
I have a 50 amp RV receptacle box mounted to the outer side wall of my
steel hangar and it is fed by the four red/green/white/black wires that
are routed from the inside of the building through metal conduit that is
inserted through the side wall out to the steel box where the receptacle
is installed as per code.
I want to decommission that receptacle so I can extend the wires outside
underground to a newly installed pedestal about 20 feet away...in other
words I need to open the existing metal box, eliminate the receptacle
and put a cover over the opening, run a conduit from the bottom of the
existing box down the outside hangar wall and into the ground and then
run it under ground out horizontal 20 feet, and then up the side of a
newly installed "pedestal" (4X4 pressure treated post sticking out of
the ground) to a new receptacle.
So the questions are:
-What method should I use to electrically connect the 4 wires at the
side wall box to the new wires that are being run through the conduit to
the new pedestal mounted receptacle?
-The travel trailer that will occupy my new trailer park is a 30 Amp
unit so I presume I should run the four 50 Amp wires through the new
underground conduit to the new new pedestal mounted receptacle so as to
take advantage of the additional conductor?
-Regarding the new receptacle should I go with a 50 Amp or a 30 Amp?
-If I install a 50 Amp receptacle to the new pedestal then I could
plug in the trailer using a 50 Amp to 30 Amp adapter plug...or...
-Should I install a 30 Amp plug at the new receptacle so as to
limit the current draw considering the the additional 30 feet of wire
resistance?
-If I went with a 30 Amp receptacle, then how would I connect
the 4 wires to the 3 wire 30 Amp plug?
-What is an economical conduit for the underground run that is
appropriate for the exposed sections (down hangar wall and up pedestal)?
-How deep does conduit need to be buried?
-What diameter conduit should I use?
-Where is a good source to procure the plastic pink flamingos, tiki
torches, and rolled out fake grass required to amplify the tackiness of
my new trailer park?
Sorry for the slightly off topic question however you all are the
smartest people I know on any subject so I'm sure there is someone on
this list who used to do this work and could provide some "if it were me
I would..." statements.
Thanks for your patience and offline responses are good so as to avoid
spamming of my off topic post!!!
Bill
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Electrical Work |
On 2022-05-14, at 20:19, William Hunter <billhuntersemail@gmail.com> wrote:
> So this question is about a hangar at an airport albeit a slight off topic question
for the multi-knowledgeable among us...
>
> I have a 50 amp RV receptacle box mounted to the outer side wall of my steel
hangar and it is fed by the four red/green/white/black wires that are routed from
the inside of the building through metal conduit that is inserted through
the side wall out to the steel box where the receptacle is installed as per code.
>
> I want to decommission that receptacle
Bill - it might help to focus the replies if you could mention what country you
live in . . . . . electrical practice does vary quite a bit between different
jurisdictions.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
If the battery contactor fails open, everything will NOT go dark. You probably
won't even know that that it failed because the aircraft electrical system is
normally powered by the alternator. You might notice some voltage instability,
but won't know the cause. The voltage regulator might be failing.
One reason for using a relay is to handle current that is greater than the switch
ampacity. Another reason for using relays is for remote control. The pilot
should have the ability to shut off all electrical power as close to the source
as possible. Suppose the plane makes a forced landing that results in leaking
fuel. The pilot might not be able to exit the aircraft due to aircraft
damage or pilot injuries. If the electricity is shut off at the source, there
is less chance of sparking wires igniting fuel. Why not wire your plane per
Z-101? I has passed peer review. Z-101 does not have an avionics switch to
fail.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506764#506764
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
On 5/14/2022 12:56 PM, andymeyer wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks! I've got other builders watching our learnings here closely so... :)
>
> I added the appropriate loads to where they need to go.
> Main bus: (breaker size)
> Pitot: 20A
> Lighting: 10A
> Boost pump: 5A
> Starter Relay
>
> Avionics Bus is:
> Garmin stuff is 15 A (incl Audio panel)
> AXP 322 + Stratux = 5A
> ELT 1A
>
> E Bus:
> AV30E - 2A
> Engine Monitor - 2A
> IFD - 17.5A (GPX+Comm)
>
> No need for brown-out boosting if I put the Avionics master in, Yes, if I don't.
The Garmin items that I'd want brownout protection on all have internal diode
or'd inputs so I can put the brownout booster on power #2 and it'll keep it
awake. Same with the Avidyne IFD. AV30 will stay awake with it's internal battery.
Engine monitor runs down to ~4.5 volts on the input. Okay, you just talked
me into brownout boosting - booster + a few wires - simple. (Fuse to the booster,
then do I also fuse each output line of the booster?
>
> I modified the diagram to two versions - one dual alternator, one dual battery.
> I was wondering why all of the relays - can we not get good switches to handle
these loads, or is the relay + small switch + connections(7) more reliable than
a higher power switch + connections (2)?
>
> Dual Alt Preflight:
> Pre-flight... EBus on - check that the AV30 wakes up. Master on, EBus off.
> Run up... Eng Bus Alt feed on, Master off - make sure engine keeps running. But,
everything else goes dark for this check???
> Aux Alt to middle position, master off, make sure things don't go dark, check
voltage, Aux alt up, check voltage rise (>13, but need higher RPM with SD8),
aux alt to middle, Main alt on, Aux alt off, recheck voltage > 13.0
>
> Annually, load test battery.
>
> Major electrical failure: (failed master, shorted master bus, loose wire to master...)
> Everything goes dark and quiet except battery bus and AV30.
> Aux Alt on. E Bus wakes up and starts powering up.
> Mixture - cut-off. Eng Aux bus on. Mixture rich. things get noisy again.
>
>
> Dual Batt pre-flight
> Pre-flight... EBus on - check that the AV30 wakes up. Master on, EBus off.
> Run-up... Ignition - test #2 on both normal and standby power. Voltage > 13.0
>
> Annually, load test both batteries.
>
> Major electrical failure:
> Everything goes dark except battery bus and AV30.
> EBus alt on, IFD comes back up. monitor voltage on main battery. AV30, IFD and
engine monitoring remains.
> When main battery is < 6V, then move ignition #2 to middle position - #2 battery.
5Ah, ~2 hours of flight time with AV30 battery and engine monitoring. Engine
monitoring dies around 4.5 volts.[/b]
On loads: wire should be sized to the mfgr spec, and protection sized to
wire. But if doing a load chart to size the alternator(s) and
battery(ies), it's worthwhile to measure actual consumption, and then
categorize each load by actual use. ex: flaps might draw 8 amps, but
would be so intermittent (a few seconds at the end of the flight) that
they could be on the endurance bus if desired.
Brownout boost: not *needed* even without an avionics master; just a
possibility of an extra couple of minutes of reboot time. No risk of
damage, but the reboot and possible reloading of flight plan, etc can be
a pain. Booster wiring protection: If all the wires are the same size
(feeder to booster, and booster to loads), and the booster has built-in
overcurrent protection (likely it will), then fusing the feeder should
be adequate.
Relays: Like Joe said, two reasons; big loads, or remote control. If the
buses are physically close to the switch location, a big switch works
fine. If they're far from the switch, a relay mounted at the buses can
keep 'fat' wires short & may weigh less than a long run of fat wire. I
agree with the 'fewer failure points', of course.
"Master off - make sure engine keeps running. But, everything else goes
dark for this check???"
Depending on architecture, activating the bus-tie switch prior to
'master off' would verify tie operation, and keep everything 'up'.
Charlie
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
>Another reason for using relays is for remote control.
Note that the relays shown control wires with (*) notations.
This means make as SHORT as practical. These are bus feeders
that should not be switched on the panel by extended wires.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Too many Circuit breakers.... |
Ceengland wrote:
> Brownout boost: not *needed* even without an avionics master; just a possibility
of an extra couple of minutes of reboot time. No risk of damage, but the reboot
and possible reloading of flight plan, etc can be a pain. Booster wiring
protection: If all the wires are the same size (feeder to booster, and booster
to loads), and the booster has built-in overcurrent protection (likely it will),
then fusing the feeder should be adequate.
Following up on Charlie's comment, I would add the following regarding brown-out
boosters. Remember that they're constant-power devices. If the output is set
at 12V and the load is 5A, power output is 60W. As input voltage falls (eg.
during engine start), input current must rise to maintain constant output power.
For example, powering that 60W load from an input voltage of 9V will require
an input current of 6.7A (plus a little for losses in the boost circuit).
Feed wires -- and, if it's fused separately, circuit protection -- should be
sized with this in mind, but calculated for your specific load and booster efficiency.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506767#506767
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