Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:40 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (user9253)
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (user9253)
3. 10:13 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (Jared Yates)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System |
Is it physically possible to disconnect the AC coil wire from ground and splice
it to a longer wire that can be connected to a voltage regulator?
Then you can use a lawn mower voltage regulator. eBay item number:
324332725292 costs $13 with free shipping.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507683#507683
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System |
Looking at the "Actual Circuit" diagram on page 4 of the Vittorazi documentation,
a diode is internal to the dynamo. So the blue wire output of the dynamo is DC,
not AC.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507685#507685
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System |
At 09:22 PM 8/15/2022, you wrote:
>I'm puzzled by a very simple and basic charging
>system and I suspect that the great minds on the
>list might be able to help figure out how it
>works. The manufacturer hasn't been forthcoming about the circuitry.
>
>Here is the extent of the technical documentation that I have found so far:
><http://vittorazi.com/manuali/Quick_wiring_Vittorazi_Moster185_electric_sta
rter_eng.pdf>http://vittorazi.com/manuali/Quick_wiring_Vittorazi_Moster185_e
lectric_starter_eng.pdf
>
>This is a small single-cylinder 2-stroke engine.
>The flywheel has a permanent magnet, and there
>is a coil at the top for generating the spark.
>There is a similar coil at the bottom that is
>intended to charge the battery. The coils are
>grounded to the engine case, and on the charging
>coil, there is a single wire that exits the coil
>and goes to a small potted device that is
>presumably a regulator and rectifier. It has
>three conductors: one for the coil output, one
>for the battery charge, and a ground. I would
>guess that the coil is creating an AC current
>with a frequency related to the engine RPM.=C2
>
>It seems like most of the lawn mower
>regulator/rectifiers have two wires for the
>incoming AC, then one wire for the outgoing DC,
>plus a grounded case. What stumps me about this
>one is that since the gadget in the circuit only
>has three wires and an insulated case, it must
>mean the AC voltage happens between the engine
>ground and the single coil output wire. I
>haven't yet put a multimeter on the leads while
>the engine is running but I suppose that would be good data.
>
>I'm tempted to try a bridge rectifier and some
>type of voltage regulating circuit. Any ideas
Some of the very earliest battery charging systems
on small bikes were as you've described. A single
coil of wire that gets 'excited' by the flywheel
magneto magnet once per revolution. These coils don't
produce 'AC' output in the classic sense . . . but
a single, high every pulse for each pass of the
magnet.
Rectifier regulators were simple, half-wave rectifiers
combined with an SCR/Zener configured to shunt
excess energy by dead-shorting the coil output at
voltage potentials greater than desired bus voltage.
A relatively low energy system intended to do no more than
support a battery intended to run a small headlamp.
Per Joe's suggestion, I would try a contemporary
law mower r/r or even a full wave r/r of which
there are many to choose and cheap experiments.
If you try a full-wave r/r, just leave the extra
AC input lead disconnected. I suspect the internals
will operate in a 'half-wave' mode.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System |
Thank you Bob and Joe! I will try the mower regulator with disregarding one
of the yellow wires and grounding to the case.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:18 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:22 PM 8/15/2022, you wrote:
>
> I'm puzzled by a very simple and basic charging system and I suspect that
> the great minds on the list might be able to help figure out how it works
.
> The manufacturer hasn't been forthcoming about the circuitry.
>
> Here is the extent of the technical documentation that I have found so fa
r:
>
> http://vittorazi.com/manuali/Quick_wiring_Vittorazi_Moster185_electric_st
arter_eng.pdf
>
> This is a small single-cylinder 2-stroke engine. The flywheel has a
> permanent magnet, and there is a coil at the top for generating the spark
.
> There is a similar coil at the bottom that is intended to charge the
> battery. The coils are grounded to the engine case, and on the charging
> coil, there is a single wire that exits the coil and goes to a small pott
ed
> device that is presumably a regulator and rectifier. It has three
> conductors: one for the coil output, one for the battery charge, and a
> ground. I would guess that the coil is creating an AC current with a
> frequency related to the engine RPM.=C3=82
>
> It seems like most of the lawn mower regulator/rectifiers have two wires
> for the incoming AC, then one wire for the outgoing DC, plus a grounded
> case. What stumps me about this one is that since the gadget in the circu
it
> only has three wires and an insulated case, it must mean the AC voltage
> happens between the engine ground and the single coil output wire. I
> haven't yet put a multimeter on the leads while the engine is running but
I
> suppose that would be good data.
>
> I'm tempted to try a bridge rectifier and some type of voltage regulating
> circuit. Any ideas
>
>
> Some of the very earliest battery charging systems
> on small bikes were as you've described. A single
> coil of wire that gets 'excited' by the flywheel
> magneto magnet once per revolution. These coils don't
> produce 'AC' output in the classic sense . . . but
> a single, high every pulse for each pass of the
> magnet.
>
> Rectifier regulators were simple, half-wave rectifiers
> combined with an SCR/Zener configured to shunt
> excess energy by dead-shorting the coil output at
> voltage potentials greater than desired bus voltage.
>
> A relatively low energy system intended to do no more than
> support a battery intended to run a small headlamp.
>
> Per Joe's suggestion, I would try a contemporary
> law mower r/r or even a full wave r/r of which
> there are many to choose and cheap experiments.
>
> If you try a full-wave r/r, just leave the extra
> AC input lead disconnected. I suspect the internals
> will operate in a 'half-wave' mode.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
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