---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/16/22: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (user9253) 2. 06:15 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (user9253) 3. 10:13 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:43 AM - Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System (Jared Yates) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System From: "user9253" Is it physically possible to disconnect the AC coil wire from ground and splice it to a longer wire that can be connected to a voltage regulator? Then you can use a lawn mower voltage regulator. eBay item number: 324332725292 costs $13 with free shipping. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507683#507683 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:35 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System From: "user9253" Looking at the "Actual Circuit" diagram on page 4 of the Vittorazi documentation, a diode is internal to the dynamo. So the blue wire output of the dynamo is DC, not AC. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507685#507685 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System At 09:22 PM 8/15/2022, you wrote: >I'm puzzled by a very simple and basic charging >system and I suspect that the great minds on the >list might be able to help figure out how it >works. The manufacturer hasn't been forthcoming about the circuitry. > >Here is the extent of the technical documentation that I have found so far: >http://vittorazi.com/manuali/Quick_wiring_Vittorazi_Moster185_e lectric_starter_eng.pdf > >This is a small single-cylinder 2-stroke engine. >The flywheel has a permanent magnet, and there >is a coil at the top for generating the spark. >There is a similar coil at the bottom that is >intended to charge the battery. The coils are >grounded to the engine case, and on the charging >coil, there is a single wire that exits the coil >and goes to a small potted device that is >presumably a regulator and rectifier. It has >three conductors: one for the coil output, one >for the battery charge, and a ground. I would >guess that the coil is creating an AC current >with a frequency related to the engine RPM.=C2 > >It seems like most of the lawn mower >regulator/rectifiers have two wires for the >incoming AC, then one wire for the outgoing DC, >plus a grounded case. What stumps me about this >one is that since the gadget in the circuit only >has three wires and an insulated case, it must >mean the AC voltage happens between the engine >ground and the single coil output wire. I >haven't yet put a multimeter on the leads while >the engine is running but I suppose that would be good data. > >I'm tempted to try a bridge rectifier and some >type of voltage regulating circuit. Any ideas Some of the very earliest battery charging systems on small bikes were as you've described. A single coil of wire that gets 'excited' by the flywheel magneto magnet once per revolution. These coils don't produce 'AC' output in the classic sense . . . but a single, high every pulse for each pass of the magnet. Rectifier regulators were simple, half-wave rectifiers combined with an SCR/Zener configured to shunt excess energy by dead-shorting the coil output at voltage potentials greater than desired bus voltage. A relatively low energy system intended to do no more than support a battery intended to run a small headlamp. Per Joe's suggestion, I would try a contemporary law mower r/r or even a full wave r/r of which there are many to choose and cheap experiments. If you try a full-wave r/r, just leave the extra AC input lead disconnected. I suspect the internals will operate in a 'half-wave' mode. Bob . . . Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane out of that stuff?" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:27 AM PST US From: Jared Yates Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reverse Engineering an Ultralight Charging System Thank you Bob and Joe! I will try the mower regulator with disregarding one of the yellow wires and grounding to the case. On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:18 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:22 PM 8/15/2022, you wrote: > > I'm puzzled by a very simple and basic charging system and I suspect that > the great minds on the list might be able to help figure out how it works .. > The manufacturer hasn't been forthcoming about the circuitry. > > Here is the extent of the technical documentation that I have found so fa r: > > http://vittorazi.com/manuali/Quick_wiring_Vittorazi_Moster185_electric_st arter_eng.pdf > > This is a small single-cylinder 2-stroke engine. The flywheel has a > permanent magnet, and there is a coil at the top for generating the spark .. > There is a similar coil at the bottom that is intended to charge the > battery. The coils are grounded to the engine case, and on the charging > coil, there is a single wire that exits the coil and goes to a small pott ed > device that is presumably a regulator and rectifier. It has three > conductors: one for the coil output, one for the battery charge, and a > ground. I would guess that the coil is creating an AC current with a > frequency related to the engine RPM.=C3=82 > > It seems like most of the lawn mower regulator/rectifiers have two wires > for the incoming AC, then one wire for the outgoing DC, plus a grounded > case. What stumps me about this one is that since the gadget in the circu it > only has three wires and an insulated case, it must mean the AC voltage > happens between the engine ground and the single coil output wire. I > haven't yet put a multimeter on the leads while the engine is running but I > suppose that would be good data. > > I'm tempted to try a bridge rectifier and some type of voltage regulating > circuit. Any ideas > > > Some of the very earliest battery charging systems > on small bikes were as you've described. A single > coil of wire that gets 'excited' by the flywheel > magneto magnet once per revolution. These coils don't > produce 'AC' output in the classic sense . . . but > a single, high every pulse for each pass of the > magnet. > > Rectifier regulators were simple, half-wave rectifiers > combined with an SCR/Zener configured to shunt > excess energy by dead-shorting the coil output at > voltage potentials greater than desired bus voltage. > > A relatively low energy system intended to do no more than > support a battery intended to run a small headlamp. > > Per Joe's suggestion, I would try a contemporary > law mower r/r or even a full wave r/r of which > there are many to choose and cheap experiments. > > If you try a full-wave r/r, just leave the extra > AC input lead disconnected. I suspect the internals > will operate in a 'half-wave' mode. > > > Bob . . . > > Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes > survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane > out of that stuff?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.