Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:10 AM - Primary Power Diagram RV-14 (Mudfly)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 (Charlie England)
3. 07:49 AM - Re: Master Relay Typical Resistance (long Story) (Bob Verwey)
4. 07:51 AM - IPAD gen3 GPS (Bob Verwey)
5. 08:52 AM - Re: Master Relay Typical Resistance (long Story) (Radioflyer)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 (David Carter)
7. 05:31 PM - Copper bar vs tefzel wire question (jcohen@post.com)
8. 05:50 PM - Re: Copper bar vs tefzel wire question (jcohen@post.com)
9. 06:06 PM - Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 (Mudfly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Primary Power Diagram RV-14 |
After many hours of reviewing diagrams from The AeroElectric Connection, I have
arrived at the following "Initial Concept" for my RV14A project.
I am not experienced in airplane electrical design so any help with poor design
or possible safety concerns is appreciated.
Basic design features and goals:
*B&C Pri alternator will connect to battery contactor output side.
*B&C Stby alternator will connect to battery contactor input side.
In the event of Pri Alt failure, and after a minute of thought, the three position
(On-Off-On) ALT switch will be placed to the STBY ALT position. If amp
loading is within stby alt capabilities, flight will continue if no secondary
issues are observed. If load shed reqd, three position (On-Off-On) BATT/ESNTL
switch will be placed to ESNTL position and, if dark stormy night, flight will
Land as Soon as Practical. IF, I'm having a bad day and, for whatever reason
(dual alt failure, electrical smoke/fire, etc), I need to shut off battery
and alternators, the two TCW IBBS batts should pick up essential systems and
I will Land as Soon as Possible. IF, I'm having a really bad day and smoke/fire
/fumes continue, I will secure battery, alternators, STBY Bats, and get down
as best I can using the AV-30 stand-by flight display.
*Hot Battery Bus -This bus is hot anytime battery is connected. It is located in
the avionics sub-panel which is which is easily accessible on pre-flight, but
not during flight. Initially for a couple items, but more added because I ran
out of space on main CB panel. All but one item on this bus is switched.
*Two TCW-IBBS-12v-6ah batteries. One provides b/u power for PFD1 and associated
items. The second is for the GTN650Xi. Because the GTN650 does not have pins
for a b/u power source, I moved it to its own bus. If needed, that bus will be
powered by its own b/u batt.
*Ignitions - One Surefly and one slick Mag.
After typing that all out, it sounds pretty "busy". I realize not as simple a
setup as some prefer, but hopefully it's not excessive. Again, I'm open to all
critiques and suggestions especially related to bad design and safety of flight.
Thanks for your input.
Shawn Edwards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510102#510102
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n144ef_995.pdf
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 |
On 2/2/2023 9:09 AM, Mudfly wrote:
>
> After many hours of reviewing diagrams from The AeroElectric Connection, I have
arrived at the following "Initial Concept" for my RV14A project.
> I am not experienced in airplane electrical design so any help with poor design
or possible safety concerns is appreciated.
> Basic design features and goals:
>
> *B&C Pri alternator will connect to battery contactor output side.
>
> *B&C Stby alternator will connect to battery contactor input side.
> In the event of Pri Alt failure, and after a minute of thought, the three
position (On-Off-On) ALT switch will be placed to the STBY ALT position. If
amp loading is within stby alt capabilities, flight will continue if no secondary
issues are observed. If load shed reqd, three position (On-Off-On) BATT/ESNTL
switch will be placed to ESNTL position and, if dark stormy night, flight
will Land as Soon as Practical. IF, I'm having a bad day and, for whatever
reason (dual alt failure, electrical smoke/fire, etc), I need to shut off battery
and alternators, the two TCW IBBS batts should pick up essential systems
and I will Land as Soon as Possible. IF, I'm having a really bad day and smoke/fire
/fumes continue, I will secure battery, alternators, STBY Bats, and get
down as best I can using the AV-30 stand-by flight display.
>
> *Hot Battery Bus -This bus is hot anytime battery is connected. It is located
in the avionics sub-panel which is which is easily accessible on pre-flight,
but not during flight. Initially for a couple items, but more added because I
ran out of space on main CB panel. All but one item on this bus is switched.
>
> *Two TCW-IBBS-12v-6ah batteries. One provides b/u power for PFD1 and associated
items. The second is for the GTN650Xi. Because the GTN650 does not have pins
for a b/u power source, I moved it to its own bus. If needed, that bus will
be powered by its own b/u batt.
>
> *Ignitions - One Surefly and one slick Mag.
>
> After typing that all out, it sounds pretty "busy". I realize not as simple
a setup as some prefer, but hopefully it's not excessive. Again, I'm open to
all critiques and suggestions especially related to bad design and safety of
flight.
> Thanks for your input.
> Shawn Edwards
Hi Shawn,
I hit pause at, 'the three position (On-Off-On) ALT switch will be
placed to the STBY ALT position.'
That becomes a single point of failure; if the switch fails
mechanically, you could lose both alternators.
Also, if I understand the design of the B&C regulators, no switch should
be unneeded. The standby regulator should keep the standby alt offline
unless the main has failed, and automatically bring the standby online
if that happens.
FWIW,
Charlie
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Master Relay Typical Resistance (long Story) |
Is the master contactor physically hot after extended use? Might hold a
clue?
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 23:35, Radioflyer <skyeyecorp@airpost.net> wrote:
> skyeyecorp@airpost.net>
>
> I've been chasing a sporadic in-flight alternator drop out issue in my
> LongEz. (No engine starting or dead battery issues.) The alternator was
> checked out to be fine and the voltage regulator is fairly new. I recently
> installed a small EFIS which shows the system voltage. To my surprise, it
> showed 14.8-15.3V when my analog Voltmeter had all along displayed just
> under 14V. This got me to trace Voltages from battery to contactors (both
> Essex 70-111225-5 units!) to bus to overvoltage relay (Lamar).
>
> With master switch on (some small loads), engine not running:
> Battery and input to master relay (not the control terminal) was showing
> 12.16V,
> output of master relay showed .4 to .48 drop depending on gentle taps,
> bus voltage at breaker panel measured an additional .2V drop,
> input to overvoltage relay was 11.45V dropping to 11.41V.
>
> Ostensibly the input to the Voltage regulator would have been about 11.4V,
> which would explain the high Voltage I was observing on the EFIS display
> while flying.
>
> OK, my theory is that the occasional alternator dropouts (which seem more
> common in colder weather, BTW) are due to low voltage feed to the voltage
> regulator due primarily to high resistance master relay contacts. This
> would raise the alternator output voltage to occasionally surge to 16V,
> thereby tripping the overvoltage relay off. Do we concur?
>
> So, out of curiosity what should be the proper pass-through resistance for
> a master relay? I used the 4-wire probe technique as suggested by Bob N. on
> the removed master relay and measured the resistance average to be about
> 133 milliOhms. (In the plane it measured more like 203 mOhms.)
>
> Meanwhile, I'm waiting to receive a new Cole-Hersee #24115 contactor to
> replace the old Essex unit. If this doesn't fix the problem, I'll sell the
> plane.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510091#510091
>
>
--
Best Regards,
Bob Verwey
082 331 2727
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Where exactly on the IPAD is the GPS module fitted? IOW which side should
be facing the sky...
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Master Relay Typical Resistance (long Story) |
The master relay was not hot at all. In fact, Amp draw was in spec,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510108#510108
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 |
I suggest comparing your design to this, which is Bob's latest
state-of-the-art:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z101B.pdf
---
David Carter
david@carter.net
On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 10:48 AM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
> On 2/2/2023 9:09 AM, Mudfly wrote:
> shawntedwards@hotmail.com>
> >
> > After many hours of reviewing diagrams from The AeroElectric Connection,
> I have arrived at the following "Initial Concept" for my RV14A project.
> > I am not experienced in airplane electrical design so any help with poor
> design or possible safety concerns is appreciated.
> > Basic design features and goals:
> >
> > *B&C Pri alternator will connect to battery contactor output side.
> >
> > *B&C Stby alternator will connect to battery contactor input side.
> > In the event of Pri Alt failure, and after a minute of thought, the
> three position (On-Off-On) ALT switch will be placed to the STBY ALT
> position. If amp loading is within stby alt capabilities, flight will
> continue if no secondary issues are observed. If load shed reqd, three
> position (On-Off-On) BATT/ESNTL switch will be placed to ESNTL position
> and, if dark stormy night, flight will Land as Soon as Practical. IF, I'm
> having a bad day and, for whatever reason (dual alt failure, electrical
> smoke/fire, etc), I need to shut off battery and alternators, the two TCW
> IBBS batts should pick up essential systems and I will Land as Soon as
> Possible. IF, I'm having a really bad day and smoke/fire /fumes continue,
> I will secure battery, alternators, STBY Bats, and get down as best I can
> using the AV-30 stand-by flight display.
> >
> > *Hot Battery Bus -This bus is hot anytime battery is connected. It is
> located in the avionics sub-panel which is which is easily accessible on
> pre-flight, but not during flight. Initially for a couple items, but more
> added because I ran out of space on main CB panel. All but one item on this
> bus is switched.
> >
> > *Two TCW-IBBS-12v-6ah batteries. One provides b/u power for PFD1 and
> associated items. The second is for the GTN650Xi. Because the GTN650 does
> not have pins for a b/u power source, I moved it to its own bus. If needed,
> that bus will be powered by its own b/u batt.
> >
> > *Ignitions - One Surefly and one slick Mag.
> >
> > After typing that all out, it sounds pretty "busy". I realize not as
> simple a setup as some prefer, but hopefully it's not excessive. Again,
> I'm open to all critiques and suggestions especially related to bad design
> and safety of flight.
> > Thanks for your input.
> > Shawn Edwards
> Hi Shawn,
>
> I hit pause at, 'the three position (On-Off-On) ALT switch will be
> placed to the STBY ALT position.'
> That becomes a single point of failure; if the switch fails
> mechanically, you could lose both alternators.
> Also, if I understand the design of the B&C regulators, no switch should
> be unneeded. The standby regulator should keep the standby alt offline
> unless the main has failed, and automatically bring the standby online
> if that happens.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Copper bar vs tefzel wire question |
I have posted a few questions on this forum before and appreciate the invaluable
brain trust it represents. I have a question which I suspect has been answered
already, but here goes:
I am building a Vans RV7 , IO360, Z101, using B&C master and starter contactors,
and an EarthX ETX 900 battery. I cant easily use the Vans design solution of
1.25 thick copper bar, about 3 long x 0.5 wide, to connect the master solenoid
to the starter solenoid, due to physical placement on my firewall and the stud
orientation on the B&C starter contactor. So I want to use an insulated wire
instead of the bar, maybe only 4 or so.
>From old posts on vansAirforce.net forum, the current here is estimated to be
up to 320 amps for short periods while cranking the starter. Is that correct?
What gauge tefzel wire should I use to maintain the functionality and safety of
the copper bar?
Thank you,
Jeff
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Copper bar vs tefzel wire question |
Correction: its a 0.125 thick copper bar.
On 2/2/23 at 8:36 PM, jcohen@post.com wrote:
>
>
> I have posted a few questions on this forum before and appreciate the invaluable
brain trust it represents. I have a question which I suspect has been answered
already, but here goes:
>
> I am building a Vans RV7 , IO360, Z101, using B&C master and starter contactors,
and an EarthX ETX 900 battery. I cant easily use the Vans design solution
of 1.25 thick copper bar, about 3 long x 0.5 wide, to connect the master solenoid
to the starter solenoid, due to physical placement on my firewall and the
stud orientation on the B&C starter contactor. So I want to use an insulated wire
instead of the bar, maybe only 4 or so.
>
> >From old posts on vansAirforce.net forum, the current here is estimated to be
up to 320 amps for short periods while cranking the starter. Is that correct?
What gauge tefzel wire should I use to maintain the functionality and safety
of the copper bar?
>
> Thank you,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Primary Power Diagram RV-14 |
Thanks Charlie. I'm glad you made it all the way to my Alt switch before hitting
pause. So you're saying there's a chance:) You're points are valid and I
appreciate the feedback. However, while I don't have primary power wires in place
yet, I do have my panel cut and labeled. Looking back, I may have put the
cart before the horse here. So,.. if possible, I will try and stick to my
switch configurations, where I can, as long as it allows for an overall safe/acceptable
risk design. In the case of my Alt switching setup, I may accept
this single point of failure (I'll add it to the long list of others I've encountered
during the project), and develop procedures and checklists to utilize
the back-up equipment I have onboard to mitigate risk when failures do occur.
Shawn
I hit pause at, 'the three position (On-Off-On) ALT switch will be
placed to the STBY ALT position.'
That becomes a single point of failure; if the switch fails
mechanically, you could lose both alternators.
Also, if I understand the design of the B&C regulators, no switch should
be unneeded. The standby regulator should keep the standby alt offline
unless the main has failed, and automatically bring the standby online
if that happens.
FWIW,
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510115#510115
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