Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 AM - Re: Intermittent Charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 12:49 PM - Re: Intermittent Charging (skywagon185guy)
3. 06:17 PM - Re: Intermittent Charging (H. Ivan Haecker)
4. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Intermittent Charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Charging |
At 07:56 PM 3/4/2023, you wrote:
>Things did not go so well today. Initially, the
>system was working normally with 14.5v on the
>panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes into
>the flight, the problem reappeared, with the
>voltmeter once again registering only battery
>voltage. And the radio noise came back as well.
>On my return trip home, no charging occurred
>until I got back on the ground, at which time
>the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging.=C2
>
>Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be
>happy to send you the regulator that got
>replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying
>another regulator for tomorrow=99s flight.
Suggest you take either of your regulators-in-hand
to fabricate the regulator-only-test fixture cited
earlier. Attach all wires of the fixture directly
to the back of the alternator.
This essentially mimics a one-wire, internally-
regulated alternator and bypasses all other ship's
wiring save b-lead and alternator grounding.
Have you checked the condition of the ground-path
between alternator and battery(-)? Where and
how does battery(-) and crankcase get connected
to airframe?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=======
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========================
========
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Charging |
Intermittent charging.....
I had an odd experience that closely relates to your problem... the
alternator going in and out of charging.
It was a booger to diagnose....,
A well seasoned electrical mechanic figured it out.
When the unit was constructed one of the large stator wires was either heat
treated wrong or was crushed in the factory assembly process. The wire
where connected in the frame finally developed an almost invisible crack
where it was mounted.
When the unit got hot this crack opened and caused no charge or
fluctuate charging. After cooling down it regained charging. Very
discouraging as every time it was checked for the problem, it was not hot
enough to show the problem... The only fix in my case was installing a new
alternator.
D
On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:59=AFPM H. Ivan Haecker <hivanhaecker@gmail.
com>
wrote:
> Things did not go so well today. Initially, the system was working
> normally with 14.5v on the panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes in
to
> the flight, the problem reappeared, with the voltmeter once again
> registering only battery voltage. And the radio noise came back as well.
On
> my return trip home, no charging occurred until I got back on the ground,
> at which time the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging.
>
> Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be happy to send you th
e
> regulator that got replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying anot
her
> regulator for tomorrow=99s flight.
> Ivan Haecker
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 8:54 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 06:14 PM 3/2/2023, you wrote:
>>
>> To those who have been following my sad tale of woe, I have good news to
>> report. Today I took my alternator to another auto parts store and had
>> another test run performed. Again I was told that the alternator was
>> performing normally.
>>
>>
>> Never hurts to have confirmation
>>
>> So I =C3=82 purchased a new regulator (Ford type) and installed
>> it. Everything has now returned to normal as the onboard
>> volt meter stayed steady at about 14.5 volts no matter
>> what the rpm. My conclusion is that despite the original
>> regulator seeming to provide expected input to the field
>> of the regulator, it wasn't. Perhaps if I had measured
>> the current flow as Joe suggested, I could have determined
>> that.
>>
>>
>> The alternator field looks like a resistor
>> to the regulator. Current flow would have
>> be proportional to applied voltage and would
>> have yielded no new information.
>>
>> It's unfortunate that we didn't arrive at
>> a definitive conclusion before you got
>> out wrenches. That test-fixture with a known-
>> good regulator was crafted with that goal
>> in mind. The regulators can be had for
>> a pittance . . .
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/2nugnwu8
>>
>> and the test tool can be re-purposed as a
>> spare part should it show that the in-service
>> part is bad.
>>
>> The appearance of alternator whine was
>> the signal that chased me down the wrong
>> rabbit hole. Has that condition resolved?
>>
>> Also, do you still have your failed
>> regulator. If you're not nailing carcasses
>> of bagged predators to the shop wall
>> I'd like to have it to run on my test
>> stand and get some measurements.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Charging |
Skywagon185guy,
Your experience describes my problem very well. Another flight this morning
with another regulator led to the same problem as previously. It charges on
the ground and for a short time in the flight, then failure. Then black to
charging upon landing and taxiing back to the hangar. I checked the engine
ground and found nothing amiss, plus never a problem with cranking,
indicating to me a robust ground. I was about to mount the regulator on the
back of the alternator as Bob suggested, when a friend dropped by and said
he had a spare alternator I could try. I got in a 30 minute flight and
everything functioned properly. The radio noise was gone and the panel
voltmeter stayed steady at ~14.5 volts. Never even a twitch of the needle.
Not wanting to celebrate prematurely again, I=99ll give it another go
tomorrow. If all goes well again, it would be interesting to see what
=99s
inside the old alternator.
Ivan Haecker
On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 2:52 PM skywagon185guy <skywagon185@gmail.com> wrote
:
> Intermittent charging.....
> I had an odd experience that closely relates to your problem... the
> alternator going in and out of charging.
> It was a booger to diagnose....,
> A well seasoned electrical mechanic figured it out.
> When the unit was constructed one of the large stator wires was
> either heat treated wrong or was crushed in the factory assembly process.
> The wire where connected in the frame finally developed an almost invisib
le
> crack where it was mounted.
> When the unit got hot this crack opened and caused no charge or
> fluctuate charging. After cooling down it regained charging. Very
> discouraging as every time it was checked for the problem, it was not hot
> enough to show the problem... The only fix in my case was installing a ne
w
> alternator.
> D
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:59=AFPM H. Ivan Haecker <hivanhaecker@gmai
l.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Things did not go so well today. Initially, the system was working
>> normally with 14.5v on the panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes i
nto
>> the flight, the problem reappeared, with the voltmeter once again
>> registering only battery voltage. And the radio noise came back as well.
On
>> my return trip home, no charging occurred until I got back on the ground
,
>> at which time the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging.
>>
>> Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be happy to send you t
he
>> regulator that got replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying ano
ther
>> regulator for tomorrow=99s flight.
>> Ivan Haecker
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 8:54 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At 06:14 PM 3/2/2023, you wrote:
>>>
>>> To those who have been following my sad tale of woe, I have good news t
o
>>> report. Today I took my alternator to another auto parts store and had
>>> another test run performed. Again I was told that the alternator was
>>> performing normally.
>>>
>>>
>>> Never hurts to have confirmation
>>>
>>> So I =C3=82 purchased a new regulator (Ford type) and installed
>>> it. Everything has now returned to normal as the onboard
>>> volt meter stayed steady at about 14.5 volts no matter
>>> what the rpm. My conclusion is that despite the original
>>> regulator seeming to provide expected input to the field
>>> of the regulator, it wasn't. Perhaps if I had measured
>>> the current flow as Joe suggested, I could have determined
>>> that.
>>>
>>>
>>> The alternator field looks like a resistor
>>> to the regulator. Current flow would have
>>> be proportional to applied voltage and would
>>> have yielded no new information.
>>>
>>> It's unfortunate that we didn't arrive at
>>> a definitive conclusion before you got
>>> out wrenches. That test-fixture with a known-
>>> good regulator was crafted with that goal
>>> in mind. The regulators can be had for
>>> a pittance . . .
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2nugnwu8
>>>
>>> and the test tool can be re-purposed as a
>>> spare part should it show that the in-service
>>> part is bad.
>>>
>>> The appearance of alternator whine was
>>> the signal that chased me down the wrong
>>> rabbit hole. Has that condition resolved?
>>>
>>> Also, do you still have your failed
>>> regulator. If you're not nailing carcasses
>>> of bagged predators to the shop wall
>>> I'd like to have it to run on my test
>>> stand and get some measurements.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>>> out of that stuff?"
>>>
>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Charging |
At 09:28 PM 3/4/2023, you wrote:
>
>Intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot. Perhaps the alternator
>fails at a certain temperature. How about heating the alternator up prior to
>having it tested at the auto parts store?
An interesting hypothesis. Another way to
ferret this out would be to conduct a test
flight battery only. Energize the alternator
for a few seconds every 5 minutes or so to
see if it's (1) active and (2) free of alternator
noise in audio system.
The goal is to explore alternator performance,
over a period of time, without allowing it to
heat up.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
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