---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/05/23: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:36 AM - Re: Intermittent Charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 12:49 PM - Re: Intermittent Charging (skywagon185guy) 3. 06:17 PM - Re: Intermittent Charging (H. Ivan Haecker) 4. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Intermittent Charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Charging At 07:56 PM 3/4/2023, you wrote: >Things did not go so well today. Initially, the >system was working normally with 14.5v on the >panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes into >the flight, the problem reappeared, with the >voltmeter once again registering only battery >voltage. And the radio noise came back as well. >On my return trip home, no charging occurred >until I got back on the ground, at which time >the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging.=C2 > >Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be >happy to send you the regulator that got >replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying >another regulator for tomorrow=99s flight. Suggest you take either of your regulators-in-hand to fabricate the regulator-only-test fixture cited earlier. Attach all wires of the fixture directly to the back of the alternator. This essentially mimics a one-wire, internally- regulated alternator and bypasses all other ship's wiring save b-lead and alternator grounding. Have you checked the condition of the ground-path between alternator and battery(-)? Where and how does battery(-) and crankcase get connected to airframe? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= = < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ======================== ======== In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:53 PM PST US From: skywagon185guy Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Charging Intermittent charging..... I had an odd experience that closely relates to your problem... the alternator going in and out of charging. It was a booger to diagnose...., A well seasoned electrical mechanic figured it out. When the unit was constructed one of the large stator wires was either heat treated wrong or was crushed in the factory assembly process. The wire where connected in the frame finally developed an almost invisible crack where it was mounted. When the unit got hot this crack opened and caused no charge or fluctuate charging. After cooling down it regained charging. Very discouraging as every time it was checked for the problem, it was not hot enough to show the problem... The only fix in my case was installing a new alternator. D On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:59=AFPM H. Ivan Haecker wrote: > Things did not go so well today. Initially, the system was working > normally with 14.5v on the panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes in to > the flight, the problem reappeared, with the voltmeter once again > registering only battery voltage. And the radio noise came back as well. On > my return trip home, no charging occurred until I got back on the ground, > at which time the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging. > > Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be happy to send you th e > regulator that got replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying anot her > regulator for tomorrow=99s flight. > Ivan Haecker > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 8:54 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 06:14 PM 3/2/2023, you wrote: >> >> To those who have been following my sad tale of woe, I have good news to >> report. Today I took my alternator to another auto parts store and had >> another test run performed. Again I was told that the alternator was >> performing normally. >> >> >> Never hurts to have confirmation >> >> So I =C3=82 purchased a new regulator (Ford type) and installed >> it. Everything has now returned to normal as the onboard >> volt meter stayed steady at about 14.5 volts no matter >> what the rpm. My conclusion is that despite the original >> regulator seeming to provide expected input to the field >> of the regulator, it wasn't. Perhaps if I had measured >> the current flow as Joe suggested, I could have determined >> that. >> >> >> The alternator field looks like a resistor >> to the regulator. Current flow would have >> be proportional to applied voltage and would >> have yielded no new information. >> >> It's unfortunate that we didn't arrive at >> a definitive conclusion before you got >> out wrenches. That test-fixture with a known- >> good regulator was crafted with that goal >> in mind. The regulators can be had for >> a pittance . . . >> >> https://tinyurl.com/2nugnwu8 >> >> and the test tool can be re-purposed as a >> spare part should it show that the in-service >> part is bad. >> >> The appearance of alternator whine was >> the signal that chased me down the wrong >> rabbit hole. Has that condition resolved? >> >> Also, do you still have your failed >> regulator. If you're not nailing carcasses >> of bagged predators to the shop wall >> I'd like to have it to run on my test >> stand and get some measurements. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes >> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane >> out of that stuff?" >> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:24 PM PST US From: "H. Ivan Haecker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Charging Skywagon185guy, Your experience describes my problem very well. Another flight this morning with another regulator led to the same problem as previously. It charges on the ground and for a short time in the flight, then failure. Then black to charging upon landing and taxiing back to the hangar. I checked the engine ground and found nothing amiss, plus never a problem with cranking, indicating to me a robust ground. I was about to mount the regulator on the back of the alternator as Bob suggested, when a friend dropped by and said he had a spare alternator I could try. I got in a 30 minute flight and everything functioned properly. The radio noise was gone and the panel voltmeter stayed steady at ~14.5 volts. Never even a twitch of the needle. Not wanting to celebrate prematurely again, I=99ll give it another go tomorrow. If all goes well again, it would be interesting to see what =99s inside the old alternator. Ivan Haecker On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 2:52 PM skywagon185guy wrote : > Intermittent charging..... > I had an odd experience that closely relates to your problem... the > alternator going in and out of charging. > It was a booger to diagnose...., > A well seasoned electrical mechanic figured it out. > When the unit was constructed one of the large stator wires was > either heat treated wrong or was crushed in the factory assembly process. > The wire where connected in the frame finally developed an almost invisib le > crack where it was mounted. > When the unit got hot this crack opened and caused no charge or > fluctuate charging. After cooling down it regained charging. Very > discouraging as every time it was checked for the problem, it was not hot > enough to show the problem... The only fix in my case was installing a ne w > alternator. > D > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:59=AFPM H. Ivan Haecker > wrote: > >> Things did not go so well today. Initially, the system was working >> normally with 14.5v on the panel voltmeter at cruise power. 15 minutes i nto >> the flight, the problem reappeared, with the voltmeter once again >> registering only battery voltage. And the radio noise came back as well. On >> my return trip home, no charging occurred until I got back on the ground , >> at which time the voltmeter was back to 14.5 volts. Very discouraging. >> >> Bob, If I ever resolve this problem, I=99ll be happy to send you t he >> regulator that got replaced. In the meantime, I=99ll be trying ano ther >> regulator for tomorrow=99s flight. >> Ivan Haecker >> >> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 8:54 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: >> >>> At 06:14 PM 3/2/2023, you wrote: >>> >>> To those who have been following my sad tale of woe, I have good news t o >>> report. Today I took my alternator to another auto parts store and had >>> another test run performed. Again I was told that the alternator was >>> performing normally. >>> >>> >>> Never hurts to have confirmation >>> >>> So I =C3=82 purchased a new regulator (Ford type) and installed >>> it. Everything has now returned to normal as the onboard >>> volt meter stayed steady at about 14.5 volts no matter >>> what the rpm. My conclusion is that despite the original >>> regulator seeming to provide expected input to the field >>> of the regulator, it wasn't. Perhaps if I had measured >>> the current flow as Joe suggested, I could have determined >>> that. >>> >>> >>> The alternator field looks like a resistor >>> to the regulator. Current flow would have >>> be proportional to applied voltage and would >>> have yielded no new information. >>> >>> It's unfortunate that we didn't arrive at >>> a definitive conclusion before you got >>> out wrenches. That test-fixture with a known- >>> good regulator was crafted with that goal >>> in mind. The regulators can be had for >>> a pittance . . . >>> >>> https://tinyurl.com/2nugnwu8 >>> >>> and the test tool can be re-purposed as a >>> spare part should it show that the in-service >>> part is bad. >>> >>> The appearance of alternator whine was >>> the signal that chased me down the wrong >>> rabbit hole. Has that condition resolved? >>> >>> Also, do you still have your failed >>> regulator. If you're not nailing carcasses >>> of bagged predators to the shop wall >>> I'd like to have it to run on my test >>> stand and get some measurements. >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes >>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane >>> out of that stuff?" >>> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intermittent Charging At 09:28 PM 3/4/2023, you wrote: > >Intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot. Perhaps the alternator >fails at a certain temperature. How about heating the alternator up prior to >having it tested at the auto parts store? An interesting hypothesis. Another way to ferret this out would be to conduct a test flight battery only. Energize the alternator for a few seconds every 5 minutes or so to see if it's (1) active and (2) free of alternator noise in audio system. The goal is to explore alternator performance, over a period of time, without allowing it to heat up. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.