Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright)
2. 06:39 AM - Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Mudfly)
3. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Wiring Looms (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Wiring Looms (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: shorted AGM battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:43 AM - ()
8. 10:04 AM - VOR/LOC/GS antenna question (fasilpereira)
9. 10:26 AM - Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Mudfly)
10. 11:26 AM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright)
11. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: shorted AGM battery (Tim Olson)
12. 12:05 PM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: shorted AGM battery |
Tim Olson wrote:
> Is that for sure an odyssey? I haven't ever seen an odyssey that looked like
that, and I don't think they even have that big white sticker on them...
> Tim
Thanks Tim,
I sent the photo to Odyssey at odysseybattery@enersys.com to get a definitive answer
whether or not it is an Odyssey battery. Maybe to the maintenance person
all AGMs are "Odyssey".
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit"
target="_blank">N1921R links</a>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510750#510750
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? |
Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or
or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet.
I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I discovered
the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the
Slickmag is switched off or inop. Surefly does have a Tach signal
converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the
UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue.
Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but
wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable
function.
Thanks,
Shawn
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510751#510751
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mag_pickup_wires_155.pdf
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring Looms |
At 11:01 AM 5/4/2023, you wrote:
>I will throw in one asterisk * ...
>
>Many Avionics manufacturers recommend the use of shielded cables for
>their data bus wiring.
>
> OK, 2 asterisks...
>
>Also, it is fairly common practice to shield low-level audio wires.
If these techniques are necessary for the
system to achieve design goals then the
manufacturer's instructions will say so
and their wiring diagrams will illustrate
it.
Had a builder show up at one of my seminars
out in California waaayyy back when showing
off pictures of his LongEz project. He was
rather proud of the wiring . . . he advised
that he used shielded wire for everything.
I asked if he was having a noise problem and
he advised, 'no, the airplane isn't flying yet'.
The $, weight and time expended on this
endeavor would have been much better spent
elsewhere. The the physics that defines the
necessity for shielding is simple. If it's
not on the instructions, it's not necessary.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring Looms |
>
>Similar situation with data. I wonder if the mfgrs of avionics
>are just hoping that one more layer of 'stuff' may head off a
>service complaint.
Hope doesn't get you very far in the TC
aircraft world. DO160 and similar documents
call out a constellation of laboratory tests
to verify that an appliance is going to be
well behaved in the ship's electronic community.
The qualification tests demonstrate
resistance to expected, external stimuli
as well as freedom from generating 'noises' that
put other systems at risk.
If the drawings do (or do not) show shielding,
then you can bet there is a good reason for
it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: shorted AGM battery |
>
>Thanks Tim,
>
>I sent the photo to Odyssey at odysseybattery@enersys.com to get a
>definitive answer whether
>or not it is an Odyssey battery. Maybe to the maintenance person all
>AGMs are "Odyssey".
Exactly, that is not an Odyssey (Enersys) product.
I should have qualified that "RG batteries don't do that"
statement.
"PROPERLY MAINTAINED RG batteries in thoughtfully configured
power generation systems don't do that"
Over the years we've seen many examples of puffed up
batteries, both wet and AGM, some of which actually
suffered dynamic chemical events that started internal
fires.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Internal_Fire/
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Odyssey_OV/
If the owner/operator of those products had carried out
legacy aviation preventative maintenance protocols,
those batteries would have been replaced long before
their innards began to 'disassemble' -OR-
In other cases, we've seen perfectly serviceable batteries
self-destruct after suffering abuse by a runaway alternator
not fitted with ov protection.
After a few decades of sifting through the
bits and pieces for all manner of catastrophic
failure, it's hard to recall any that were
not based on a failure to 'take care of business'.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? |
At 08:38 AM 5/8/2023, you wrote:
>
>Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or
>or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet.
>I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I
>discovered
>the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the
>Slickmag is switched off or inop.
Hmmm . . . how does the SureFly know anything
about the magneto condition?
>Surefly does have a Tach signal
>converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the
>UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue.
This is a powered, hall-effect sensor that
watches the magneto's magnet thus providing
a nice, clean square wave signal
completely independent of the magneto's
operating condition.
>
>Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but
>wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable
>function.
Yes, it WOULD provide a signal compatible with
the proposed hour-meter enable interface. Unlike
my original idea, the hour-meter would continue
to run whether or not the magneto was 'active'.
It's a lot more expensive. My proposed interface
looks at the p-lead noise of a active magneto.
Of course, it the mag is "off", the hour meter
doesn't run. Errors for recording engine run time
should be very small to non existent . . . how
often and for how long would you plan to fly with
the magneto off?
Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why
the SureFly would depend on Slick operations
to provide a tach signal . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 7
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Message 8
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| Subject: | VOR/LOC/GS antenna question |
I'm installing a GNS-430W on my composite aircraft. I already have 2 VOR antennas
that are currently not in use because I didn't had any NAV radio installed.
I just realized that the GNS-430W requires an input for both VOR/LOC and GS. The
common solution for this is to install a Diplexer on a NAV antenna to break
the signal 2 outputs, one output for VOR/LOC and other for GS. I have seen that
some users reports a loss in VOR range due to the diplexer and I'm worried about
it because the VORs are far from each other here where I live.
I'm considering to plug one antenna to the VOR/LOC input of the GNS and the other
to the GS. I'm not sure if I'll need to add a diplexer to the GS cable and
if I do, can I leave the VOR connector of the diplexer open? Additionally, if
a diplexer is necessary, is there any DIY that could be used, instead of the $150-$200
ones?
Thank you,
Fabricio
--------
Fabricio Pereira
Engineer / Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510757#510757
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? |
Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why
the SureFly would depend on Slick operations
to provide a tach signal . . .
Bob .
I suspect that what he's saying is that the Surefly doesn't output a tach signal
usable in the same fashion as the mag p-lead signal. Therefore, there's no signal
to any electronic tach if the mag is off. Pretty common situation with aftermarket
electronic ignitions for Lycs.
Charlie .
Yes Charlie. The Surefly doesn't output a usable tach signal to the G3X. So,
during mag chk on run-ups, the rpm drops to zero when slick mag is selected
off. Some don't mind this and just listen for RPM drop. Definitely the most
simple approach. I just like to make things difficult so I looked at options
to still have RPM visible. It appeared the SureFly Tach sensor
and the UMA T1A9-1 were the popular options. I went with the T1A9-1.
Shawn .
Bob,
I purchased the T1A9-1 solely for the RPM function. It wasn't until I reviewed
the documentation that I saw the "voltage out to hourmeter"
statement shown on pg2 of the document attached in my previous post.
Like you mentioned, I only want the hourmeter to record time when
the engine is running. Sounds like your method will accomplish that.
Thanks.
Shawn
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510758#510758
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: shorted AGM battery |
I got a prompt response from Alan Kohler of Odyssey Battery.
Hello,
That is an EnerSys / Odyssey Battery
All Odyssey are AGM Batteries
This one had a severe internal issue, and severe over-charging.
The heat is the only thing that can soften the plastic enough to deform and stay
deformed.
Personally, I have never seen that exact model used in an Aircraft before.
It is definitely one of these 2:
https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm30e-battery-pc950/
https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm40e-battery-pc1100/
We sometimes use all-black plastic, instead of the red top. These are made in the
UK, and the black plastic is easier to get.
Alan Kohler
Marketing Manager
ODYSSEY Battery
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit"
target="_blank">N1921R links</a>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510759#510759
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: shorted AGM battery |
Interesting, thanks for that! Learn something new every day.
I've never seen vent caps on the Odyssey. And never all black. But,
they explained that.
Tim
On 5/8/2023 1:26 PM, johnbright wrote:
>
> I got a prompt response from Alan Kohler of Odyssey Battery.
>
> Hello,
>
> That is an EnerSys / Odyssey Battery
>
> All Odyssey are AGM Batteries
>
> This one had a severe internal issue, and severe over-charging.
>
> The heat is the only thing that can soften the plastic enough to deform and stay
deformed.
>
> Personally, I have never seen that exact model used in an Aircraft before.
>
> It is definitely one of these 2:
> https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm30e-battery-pc950/
>
> https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm40e-battery-pc1100/
>
> We sometimes use all-black plastic, instead of the red top. These are made in
the UK, and the black plastic is easier to get.
>
>
> Alan Kohler
> Marketing Manager
> ODYSSEY Battery
>
> --------
> John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
> Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
> john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit"
target="_blank">N1921R links</a>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510759#510759
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: shorted AGM battery |
I'm going to see if the aircraft owner/pilot will entertain me making an electrical
power schematic. The pilot indicates a power diode was added between the
two batteries after the incident... if that is all that was done it may be possible
to determine the design of the electrical power system at the time of the
incident in 2019.
I can imagine the failed battery being depleted and the aircraft being started
on the other battery followed by becoming airborne promptly and the main alternator
putting a lot of energy into the depleted battery that was made to fit an
oversize battery box by using foam spacers.
The replacement battery is an Odyssey PC680 that also uses foam spacers so the
risk is still present. I'll communicate with the pilot about that.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YOtPiA3AdUsQEYR4nodBESNAo21rxdnx4pFs7VxXfuI/edit"
target="_blank">N1921R links</a>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510761#510761
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