---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/08/23: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:45 AM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright) 2. 06:39 AM - Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Mudfly) 3. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Wiring Looms (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Wiring Looms (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: shorted AGM battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:43 AM - () 8. 10:04 AM - VOR/LOC/GS antenna question (fasilpereira) 9. 10:26 AM - Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? (Mudfly) 10. 11:26 AM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright) 11. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: shorted AGM battery (Tim Olson) 12. 12:05 PM - Re: shorted AGM battery (johnbright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: shorted AGM battery From: "johnbright" Tim Olson wrote: > Is that for sure an odyssey? I haven't ever seen an odyssey that looked like that, and I don't think they even have that big white sticker on them... > Tim Thanks Tim, I sent the photo to Odyssey at odysseybattery@enersys.com to get a definitive answer whether or not it is an Odyssey battery. Maybe to the maintenance person all AGMs are "Odyssey". -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va N1921R links Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510750#510750 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? From: "Mudfly" Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet. I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I discovered the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the Slickmag is switched off or inop. Surefly does have a Tach signal converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue. Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable function. Thanks, Shawn Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510751#510751 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mag_pickup_wires_155.pdf ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring Looms At 11:01 AM 5/4/2023, you wrote: >I will throw in one asterisk * ... > >Many Avionics manufacturers recommend the use of shielded cables for >their data bus wiring. > > OK, 2 asterisks... > >Also, it is fairly common practice to shield low-level audio wires. If these techniques are necessary for the system to achieve design goals then the manufacturer's instructions will say so and their wiring diagrams will illustrate it. Had a builder show up at one of my seminars out in California waaayyy back when showing off pictures of his LongEz project. He was rather proud of the wiring . . . he advised that he used shielded wire for everything. I asked if he was having a noise problem and he advised, 'no, the airplane isn't flying yet'. The $, weight and time expended on this endeavor would have been much better spent elsewhere. The the physics that defines the necessity for shielding is simple. If it's not on the instructions, it's not necessary. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring Looms > >Similar situation with data. I wonder if the mfgrs of avionics >are just hoping that one more layer of 'stuff' may head off a >service complaint. Hope doesn't get you very far in the TC aircraft world. DO160 and similar documents call out a constellation of laboratory tests to verify that an appliance is going to be well behaved in the ship's electronic community. The qualification tests demonstrate resistance to expected, external stimuli as well as freedom from generating 'noises' that put other systems at risk. If the drawings do (or do not) show shielding, then you can bet there is a good reason for it. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: shorted AGM battery > >Thanks Tim, > >I sent the photo to Odyssey at odysseybattery@enersys.com to get a >definitive answer whether >or not it is an Odyssey battery. Maybe to the maintenance person all >AGMs are "Odyssey". Exactly, that is not an Odyssey (Enersys) product. I should have qualified that "RG batteries don't do that" statement. "PROPERLY MAINTAINED RG batteries in thoughtfully configured power generation systems don't do that" Over the years we've seen many examples of puffed up batteries, both wet and AGM, some of which actually suffered dynamic chemical events that started internal fires. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Internal_Fire/ http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Odyssey_OV/ If the owner/operator of those products had carried out legacy aviation preventative maintenance protocols, those batteries would have been replaced long before their innards began to 'disassemble' -OR- In other cases, we've seen perfectly serviceable batteries self-destruct after suffering abuse by a runaway alternator not fitted with ov protection. After a few decades of sifting through the bits and pieces for all manner of catastrophic failure, it's hard to recall any that were not based on a failure to 'take care of business'. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? At 08:38 AM 5/8/2023, you wrote: > >Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or >or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet. >I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I >discovered >the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the >Slickmag is switched off or inop. Hmmm . . . how does the SureFly know anything about the magneto condition? >Surefly does have a Tach signal >converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the >UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue. This is a powered, hall-effect sensor that watches the magneto's magnet thus providing a nice, clean square wave signal completely independent of the magneto's operating condition. > >Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but >wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable >function. Yes, it WOULD provide a signal compatible with the proposed hour-meter enable interface. Unlike my original idea, the hour-meter would continue to run whether or not the magneto was 'active'. It's a lot more expensive. My proposed interface looks at the p-lead noise of a active magneto. Of course, it the mag is "off", the hour meter doesn't run. Errors for recording engine run time should be very small to non existent . . . how often and for how long would you plan to fly with the magneto off? Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why the SureFly would depend on Slick operations to provide a tach signal . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:47 AM PST US ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna question From: "fasilpereira" I'm installing a GNS-430W on my composite aircraft. I already have 2 VOR antennas that are currently not in use because I didn't had any NAV radio installed. I just realized that the GNS-430W requires an input for both VOR/LOC and GS. The common solution for this is to install a Diplexer on a NAV antenna to break the signal 2 outputs, one output for VOR/LOC and other for GS. I have seen that some users reports a loss in VOR range due to the diplexer and I'm worried about it because the VORs are far from each other here where I live. I'm considering to plug one antenna to the VOR/LOC input of the GNS and the other to the GS. I'm not sure if I'll need to add a diplexer to the GS cable and if I do, can I leave the VOR connector of the diplexer open? Additionally, if a diplexer is necessary, is there any DIY that could be used, instead of the $150-$200 ones? Thank you, Fabricio -------- Fabricio Pereira Engineer / Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510757#510757 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? From: "Mudfly" Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why the SureFly would depend on Slick operations to provide a tach signal . . . Bob . I suspect that what he's saying is that the Surefly doesn't output a tach signal usable in the same fashion as the mag p-lead signal. Therefore, there's no signal to any electronic tach if the mag is off. Pretty common situation with aftermarket electronic ignitions for Lycs. Charlie . Yes Charlie. The Surefly doesn't output a usable tach signal to the G3X. So, during mag chk on run-ups, the rpm drops to zero when slick mag is selected off. Some don't mind this and just listen for RPM drop. Definitely the most simple approach. I just like to make things difficult so I looked at options to still have RPM visible. It appeared the SureFly Tach sensor and the UMA T1A9-1 were the popular options. I went with the T1A9-1. Shawn . Bob, I purchased the T1A9-1 solely for the RPM function. It wasn't until I reviewed the documentation that I saw the "voltage out to hourmeter" statement shown on pg2 of the document attached in my previous post. Like you mentioned, I only want the hourmeter to record time when the engine is running. Sounds like your method will accomplish that. Thanks. Shawn Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510758#510758 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: shorted AGM battery From: "johnbright" I got a prompt response from Alan Kohler of Odyssey Battery. Hello, That is an EnerSys / Odyssey Battery All Odyssey are AGM Batteries This one had a severe internal issue, and severe over-charging. The heat is the only thing that can soften the plastic enough to deform and stay deformed. Personally, I have never seen that exact model used in an Aircraft before. It is definitely one of these 2: https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm30e-battery-pc950/ https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm40e-battery-pc1100/ We sometimes use all-black plastic, instead of the red top. These are made in the UK, and the black plastic is easier to get. Alan Kohler Marketing Manager ODYSSEY Battery -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va N1921R links Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510759#510759 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: shorted AGM battery From: Tim Olson Interesting, thanks for that! Learn something new every day. I've never seen vent caps on the Odyssey. And never all black. But, they explained that. Tim On 5/8/2023 1:26 PM, johnbright wrote: > > I got a prompt response from Alan Kohler of Odyssey Battery. > > Hello, > > That is an EnerSys / Odyssey Battery > > All Odyssey are AGM Batteries > > This one had a severe internal issue, and severe over-charging. > > The heat is the only thing that can soften the plastic enough to deform and stay deformed. > > Personally, I have never seen that exact model used in an Aircraft before. > > It is definitely one of these 2: > https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm30e-battery-pc950/ > > https://www.odysseybattery.com/products/ods-agm40e-battery-pc1100/ > > We sometimes use all-black plastic, instead of the red top. These are made in the UK, and the black plastic is easier to get. > > > Alan Kohler > Marketing Manager > ODYSSEY Battery > > -------- > John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 > Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. > john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va > N1921R links > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510759#510759 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: shorted AGM battery From: "johnbright" I'm going to see if the aircraft owner/pilot will entertain me making an electrical power schematic. The pilot indicates a power diode was added between the two batteries after the incident... if that is all that was done it may be possible to determine the design of the electrical power system at the time of the incident in 2019. I can imagine the failed battery being depleted and the aircraft being started on the other battery followed by becoming airborne promptly and the main alternator putting a lot of energy into the depleted battery that was made to fit an oversize battery box by using foam spacers. The replacement battery is an Odyssey PC680 that also uses foam spacers so the risk is still present. I'll communicate with the pilot about that. -------- John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360 Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F. john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va N1921R links Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510761#510761 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.