Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:19 AM - Re: Power Control for Heated Seats (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 11:18 AM - Re: Power Control for Heated Seats (Jeff Luckey)
4. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Microswitch Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (skywagon185guy)
6. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers |
At 01:00 PM 8/21/2023, you wrote:
>Joe's charger comment is very correct about the potential discharge
problem.
>
>This is true also of the small maintainers like the Battery Tender.
>They don't appear to have a blocking diode to prevent battery discharge.
>If your wall power fails, due to a GFI failure,
>power line failure,etc., the chargers will slowly discharge the battery,
>This can be really bad on some batteries. If
>discharged totally they may not be recovered or
>have severely=C2 limited capacity when charged.
Just for grins, I just checked on a test Battery Tender
test cycle that just finished topping off a Genesis AGM.
I put an ammeter in series with the BT battery leads
and measured approximately 20 mA (charging) with the
BT still powered up and battery voltage at the 'maintenance'
level of 13.2 volts. With the BT unplugged, current
drain was approx 200 uA.
Circuitry within the BT must have some sense of
battery voltage but the electronics to sample that
value need not draw a lot of current. For this particular
variant on the Battery Tender Jr, that sampling current
is very small. Further, other electronics involved in
normal operation appears to 'disconnect' from the
target battery should the mains power be interrupted.
I'll check other battery maintenance examples as things
progress . . . but I'm thinking it's pretty easy to
avoid power-down discharge of the target battery. I suspect
we'll find similar conditions with other products.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=======
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========================
========
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Power Control for Heated Seats |
At 01:10 AM 8/21/2023, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Does the knob "click off"? It says something like that somewhere on
>the web page it's not exactly clear.
Yes, they have an on/off switch at max CCW rotation
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Power Control for Heated Seats |
Thanks Bob.=C2- I just ordered one to test.
-Jeff
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 09:31:42 AM PDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, I
II <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 01:10 AM 8/21/2023, you wrote:
Bob,
Does the knob "click off"?=C2- It says something like thatsomewhere on th
e web page it's not exactlyclear.
=C2- Yes, they have an on/off switch at max CCW rotation
=C2- Bob . . .
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-////
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-(o o)
=C2-=C2- ===========o00o=(_)=o00o====
=====
=C2-=C2- < Go ahead, make my day . . .=C2-=C2- >
=C2-=C2- < show me where I'm wrong.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2->
=C2-=C2- ====================
============
=C2-
=C2-=C2- In the interest of creative evolution
=C2-=C2- of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
=C2-=C2- on physics and good practice.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Microswitch Question |
At 05:37 PM 8/22/2023, you wrote:
>
>
> > there are several ways of attacking this problem but I want to
> keep it simple...
>
>Belt Sander?
Possibly a 'best' solution. What area of the switch is
contacting the skin?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers |
Bob,
Thanks for doing the discharge measurements.
I have lost some deep cycle RV batteries due to the GFI popping for some
unknown reasons.
It's usually the case where they have been put away for long periods of
time, maybe over winter, and not being around to occasionally check for
power. If I can't check on their condition routinely I will not plug the
BT's in a GFI controlled circuit.
Using a non GFI controlled line, even if the power goes off and later is
restored power is established back to the maintainer.
D
On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 8:54=AFAM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 01:00 PM 8/21/2023, you wrote:
>
> Joe's charger comment is very correct about the potential discharge
> problem.
>
> This is true also of the small maintainers like the Battery Tender.
> They don't appear to have a blocking diode to prevent battery discharge.
> If your wall power fails, due to a GFI failure, power line failure,etc.,
> the chargers will slowly discharge the battery,
> This can be really bad on some batteries. If discharged totally they may
> not be recovered or have severely=C3=82 limited capacity when charged.
>
>
> Just for grins, I just checked on a test Battery Tender
> test cycle that just finished topping off a Genesis AGM.
>
> I put an ammeter in series with the BT battery leads
> and measured approximately 20 mA (charging) with the
> BT still powered up and battery voltage at the 'maintenance'
> level of 13.2 volts. With the BT unplugged, current
> drain was approx 200 uA.
>
> Circuitry within the BT must have some sense of
> battery voltage but the electronics to sample that
> value need not draw a lot of current. For this particular
> variant on the Battery Tender Jr, that sampling current
> is very small. Further, other electronics involved in
> normal operation appears to 'disconnect' from the
> target battery should the mains power be interrupted.
>
> I'll check other battery maintenance examples as things
> progress . . . but I'm thinking it's pretty easy to
> avoid power-down discharge of the target battery. I suspect
> we'll find similar conditions with other products.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======
==
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> =======================
=========
>
> In the interest of creative evolution
> of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
> on physics and good practice.
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers |
At 01:52 PM 8/23/2023, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Thanks for doing the discharge measurements.
>I have lost some deep cycle RV batteries due to
>the GFI popping for some unknown=C2 reasons.
>It's usually the case where they have been put
>away for long periods of time, maybe over
>winter, and not being around to occasionally=C2
>check for power. If I can't check on their
>condition routinely=C2 I will not plug the BT's in a GFI controlled
circuit.
>Using a non GFI controlled line, even if the
>power goes off and later is restored power is
>established back to the maintainer.
Hmmm . . . if these batteries were at 100% when
the power went off, it should have taken considerable
time for them to self-discharge to levels of self
destruction. Flooded lead acid batteries have
self discharge rates on the order of 1%/month
for new; 3% for one nearing end of life (temperature
dependent also).
Was there any chance these batteries were
burdened with a parasitic load while on
storage?
In any case, arranging for a self-recovering
maintenance charger seems a well reasoned
decision!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=======
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========================
========
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
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