---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/23/23: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 09:19 AM - Re: Power Control for Heated Seats (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 11:18 AM - Re: Power Control for Heated Seats (Jeff Luckey) 4. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Microswitch Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (skywagon185guy) 6. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers At 01:00 PM 8/21/2023, you wrote: >Joe's charger comment is very correct about the potential discharge problem. > >This is true also of the small maintainers like the Battery Tender. >They don't appear to have a blocking diode to prevent battery discharge. >If your wall power fails, due to a GFI failure, >power line failure,etc., the chargers will slowly discharge the battery, >This can be really bad on some batteries. If >discharged totally they may not be recovered or >have severely=C2 limited capacity when charged. Just for grins, I just checked on a test Battery Tender test cycle that just finished topping off a Genesis AGM. I put an ammeter in series with the BT battery leads and measured approximately 20 mA (charging) with the BT still powered up and battery voltage at the 'maintenance' level of 13.2 volts. With the BT unplugged, current drain was approx 200 uA. Circuitry within the BT must have some sense of battery voltage but the electronics to sample that value need not draw a lot of current. For this particular variant on the Battery Tender Jr, that sampling current is very small. Further, other electronics involved in normal operation appears to 'disconnect' from the target battery should the mains power be interrupted. I'll check other battery maintenance examples as things progress . . . but I'm thinking it's pretty easy to avoid power-down discharge of the target battery. I suspect we'll find similar conditions with other products. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= = < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ======================== ======== In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power Control for Heated Seats At 01:10 AM 8/21/2023, you wrote: >Bob, > >Does the knob "click off"? It says something like that somewhere on >the web page it's not exactly clear. Yes, they have an on/off switch at max CCW rotation Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:57 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power Control for Heated Seats Thanks Bob.=C2- I just ordered one to test. -Jeff On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 09:31:42 AM PDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, I II wrote: At 01:10 AM 8/21/2023, you wrote: Bob, Does the knob "click off"?=C2- It says something like thatsomewhere on th e web page it's not exactlyclear. =C2- Yes, they have an on/off switch at max CCW rotation =C2- Bob . . . =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-//// =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-(o o) =C2-=C2- ===========o00o=(_)=o00o==== ===== =C2-=C2- < Go ahead, make my day . . .=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2- < show me where I'm wrong.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2- ==================== ============ =C2- =C2-=C2- In the interest of creative evolution =C2-=C2- of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based =C2-=C2- on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Microswitch Question At 05:37 PM 8/22/2023, you wrote: > > > > there are several ways of attacking this problem but I want to > keep it simple... > >Belt Sander? Possibly a 'best' solution. What area of the switch is contacting the skin? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:43 AM PST US From: skywagon185guy Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers Bob, Thanks for doing the discharge measurements. I have lost some deep cycle RV batteries due to the GFI popping for some unknown reasons. It's usually the case where they have been put away for long periods of time, maybe over winter, and not being around to occasionally check for power. If I can't check on their condition routinely I will not plug the BT's in a GFI controlled circuit. Using a non GFI controlled line, even if the power goes off and later is restored power is established back to the maintainer. D On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 8:54=AFAM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 01:00 PM 8/21/2023, you wrote: > > Joe's charger comment is very correct about the potential discharge > problem. > > This is true also of the small maintainers like the Battery Tender. > They don't appear to have a blocking diode to prevent battery discharge. > If your wall power fails, due to a GFI failure, power line failure,etc., > the chargers will slowly discharge the battery, > This can be really bad on some batteries. If discharged totally they may > not be recovered or have severely=C3=82 limited capacity when charged. > > > Just for grins, I just checked on a test Battery Tender > test cycle that just finished topping off a Genesis AGM. > > I put an ammeter in series with the BT battery leads > and measured approximately 20 mA (charging) with the > BT still powered up and battery voltage at the 'maintenance' > level of 13.2 volts. With the BT unplugged, current > drain was approx 200 uA. > > Circuitry within the BT must have some sense of > battery voltage but the electronics to sample that > value need not draw a lot of current. For this particular > variant on the Battery Tender Jr, that sampling current > is very small. Further, other electronics involved in > normal operation appears to 'disconnect' from the > target battery should the mains power be interrupted. > > I'll check other battery maintenance examples as things > progress . . . but I'm thinking it's pretty easy to > avoid power-down discharge of the target battery. I suspect > we'll find similar conditions with other products. > > Bob . . . > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o====== == > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ======================= ========= > > In the interest of creative evolution > of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based > on physics and good practice. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FYI: New kid in battery charger/maintainers At 01:52 PM 8/23/2023, you wrote: >Bob, >Thanks for doing the discharge measurements. >I have lost some deep cycle RV batteries due to >the GFI popping for some unknown=C2 reasons. >It's usually the case where they have been put >away for long periods of time, maybe over >winter, and not being around to occasionally=C2 >check for power. If I can't check on their >condition routinely=C2 I will not plug the BT's in a GFI controlled circuit. >Using a non GFI controlled line, even if the >power goes off and later is restored power is >established back to the maintainer. Hmmm . . . if these batteries were at 100% when the power went off, it should have taken considerable time for them to self-discharge to levels of self destruction. Flooded lead acid batteries have self discharge rates on the order of 1%/month for new; 3% for one nearing end of life (temperature dependent also). Was there any chance these batteries were burdened with a parasitic load while on storage? In any case, arranging for a self-recovering maintenance charger seems a well reasoned decision! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= = < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ======================== ======== In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.