Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:32 AM - Re: Promised data on YONHAN 8A charger performance (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 10:21 AM - Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:03 PM - Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (rparigoris)
4. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Promised data on YONHAN 8A charger performance |
At 09:03 PM 10/16/2023, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Thanks for the details on this charger/maintainer.
>It's always great to have real data results.
>It would be very nice if there was some way to verify if the pulse
>phase is or can do any real improvements in the cells.
I renewed an acquaintance with Isidor Buchmann of
Battery University a few weeks ago to see if the
battery repair/desulfating issues had become more
realistic since we talked last . . . about 15
years ago! Here was his reply . . .
Bob,
There was so much written of sulfation but no one has a simple
solution. We are working with military organizations to also
get a better insight into dormant lead acid batteries. Universities
are also working on sulfation reversal. It is possible but not
always practical.
Please see also:
<https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-804b-sulfation-and-how-to-prevent-it>https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-804b-sulfation-and-how-to-prevent-it
Good luck and best wishes,
Isidor Buchmann| CEO
Cadex Electronics Inc.
22000 Fraserwood Way, Richmond BC V6W1J6
604.231.7777 phone | 604.231.7755 fax | <http://www.cadex.com/>www.cadex.com
A few years back, I did an exhaustive patent search
on battery recovery/desulfation processes and
technologies. The common thread across the study
was that there was NO common thread. Every
patent had it's own formula for battery
salvation. Similarly, there have been countless
articles on the 'net and in particular youtube
highlighting a constellation of repair/recovery
techniques.
Given the ever rising costs of new l-a and svla
batteries, you would wonder why a whole new
industry has not evolved around the salvage
of batteries slated to recycling.
As the article cited above states, the best
protocol for battery desulfation issues is
to prevent/retard it in the first place. I've
suggested that batteries are very much like
houseplants. Well cared for they will thrive;
neglect them and . . . well . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead |
>On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 4:42=AFPM rparigoris
><<mailto:rparigor@hotmail.com>rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"rparigoris" <<mailto:rparigor@hotmail.com>rparigor@hotmail.com>
>Hi Group
>Figured would mention how we brought back four
>12 volt 100 amp AGM batteries from the dead.
>They are being used on a Solar System. About 6
>months old. Anyway the charge controller decided
>to fail and stopped all charging and put a load
>on batteries. They were flat for about 3 weeks:
>two reading 5.2 volts and the other two were at 5.5 volts.
>I have a 4 station 750mA Battery Tender.
<snip>
> Put on Battery Tender and they are all floating now.
>Looks like the Scrap Yard won't get these 4
>examples, but they will be getting their hands on the charge controller.
>Ron
Dead battery recovery is not impossible . . . see: Section 5.6, page 23
of this document.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Concorde/Chairman_Technical_Manu
al.pdf
The operative phrase in this excerpt is "Batteries in this
condition may SOMETIMES be recovered".
Indeed, I've read military qualification requirements for
Concorde products where a battery is deliberately discharge
to the degree that shorting jumpers are placed across cells
for a period of time whereupon a recovery process is
exercised; the battery MUST recover to some acceptable
metric.
I suspect there can be large differences in the ability
of various battery products to pass this test . . .
particularly in the relatively short time frame
in a laboratory environment.
Have you conducted cap checks on your recovered
batteries?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=======
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========================
========
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead |
Hi Bob
The Batteries are 110 amp AGM 12 volt. We load tested them for 10 seconds at 300
amps. All 4 were about the same, after 10 seconds voltage was 9.6 to 9.8 volts.
We were about 55F temperature.
I didn't load or capacity test these batteries when new.
At 55f we ran each battery with a 8.95 amp load for 3.33 hours (approx. 30 aHs).
Each battery ended with approx. 12.0 volts. Ranged between .4 volts of each
other. On a generic graph I have, it shows a lead acid battery with a c/10 load
at 50% capacity at 12.0 volts. That's the only capacity testing we did. In service
they need to run at 5 amps for 2 hours most of the time.
Do you have any other recommendations on capacity test try?
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511615#511615
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead |
At 08:02 PM 10/17/2023, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob
>The Batteries are 110 amp AGM 12 volt. We load tested them for
>10 seconds at 300 amps. All 4 were about the same, after 10
>seconds voltage was 9.6 to 9.8 volts.
That seems a bit 'soggy' for 110 ah batteries. The
'cranking test' that was standard at B&C for years
was to apply a load that produces a terminal voltage
of 9V and hold it for 15 seconds. Read the 9v current
at the 15 second mark. New, 18AH SVLA batteries would
routinely produce 500+ amps over that interval.
Just for grins, I've got a group 65 battery in
the shop with a 1200W inverter bonded to the side.
Handy for portable power in the field.
It's got a August 2019 manufacturing date
sticker. The sticker cranking value is 850A.
I just did a 9V/15S load test on it and got
a value of 620 Amps. It had not been topped
off in some time so I left it in the care of a
YONHAN charger.
I'll do a WestMountain Radio CAP check on it
in the morning. The battery weighs about 55
pounds so I would expect it to have a new
capacity on the order of 50AH.
After I suck out and measure all its juices, I'll
recharge with the YONHAN and plot the curve. This is
going to take a few days so I'll have to report
back.
(I'm in process of setting up a vacuum pump
drive pad test stand with an 8-30A electrical
system mockup. It will feature an electronic
load bank capable of much larger loads than
my WMR battery tester . . . so I'll be able
to evaluate big batteries in less time. I
dug out a data acquisition system I last used
on a project at Beech. It's an 8-channel, 12-
bit system capable of 1000 samples/second. The
quality of my data plots should take a quantum
jump!)
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
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