---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/17/23: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:32 AM - Re: Promised data on YONHAN 8A charger performance (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 10:21 AM - Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:03 PM - Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (rparigoris) 4. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Promised data on YONHAN 8A charger performance At 09:03 PM 10/16/2023, you wrote: >Bob, >Thanks for the details on this charger/maintainer. >It's always great to have real data results. >It would be very nice if there was some way to verify if the pulse >phase is or can do any real improvements in the cells. I renewed an acquaintance with Isidor Buchmann of Battery University a few weeks ago to see if the battery repair/desulfating issues had become more realistic since we talked last . . . about 15 years ago! Here was his reply . . . Bob, There was so much written of sulfation but no one has a simple solution. We are working with military organizations to also get a better insight into dormant lead acid batteries. Universities are also working on sulfation reversal. It is possible but not always practical. Please see also: https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-804b-sulfation-and-how-to-prevent-it Good luck and best wishes, Isidor Buchmann| CEO Cadex Electronics Inc. 22000 Fraserwood Way, Richmond BC V6W1J6 604.231.7777 phone | 604.231.7755 fax | www.cadex.com A few years back, I did an exhaustive patent search on battery recovery/desulfation processes and technologies. The common thread across the study was that there was NO common thread. Every patent had it's own formula for battery salvation. Similarly, there have been countless articles on the 'net and in particular youtube highlighting a constellation of repair/recovery techniques. Given the ever rising costs of new l-a and svla batteries, you would wonder why a whole new industry has not evolved around the salvage of batteries slated to recycling. As the article cited above states, the best protocol for battery desulfation issues is to prevent/retard it in the first place. I've suggested that batteries are very much like houseplants. Well cared for they will thrive; neglect them and . . . well . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead >On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 4:42=AFPM rparigoris ><rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote: >"rparigoris" <rparigor@hotmail.com> >Hi Group >Figured would mention how we brought back four >12 volt 100 amp AGM batteries from the dead. >They are being used on a Solar System. About 6 >months old. Anyway the charge controller decided >to fail and stopped all charging and put a load >on batteries. They were flat for about 3 weeks: >two reading 5.2 volts and the other two were at 5.5 volts. >I have a 4 station 750mA Battery Tender. > Put on Battery Tender and they are all floating now. >Looks like the Scrap Yard won't get these 4 >examples, but they will be getting their hands on the charge controller. >Ron Dead battery recovery is not impossible . . . see: Section 5.6, page 23 of this document. http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Concorde/Chairman_Technical_Manu al.pdf The operative phrase in this excerpt is "Batteries in this condition may SOMETIMES be recovered". Indeed, I've read military qualification requirements for Concorde products where a battery is deliberately discharge to the degree that shorting jumpers are placed across cells for a period of time whereupon a recovery process is exercised; the battery MUST recover to some acceptable metric. I suspect there can be large differences in the ability of various battery products to pass this test . . . particularly in the relatively short time frame in a laboratory environment. Have you conducted cap checks on your recovered batteries? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= = < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ======================== ======== In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob The Batteries are 110 amp AGM 12 volt. We load tested them for 10 seconds at 300 amps. All 4 were about the same, after 10 seconds voltage was 9.6 to 9.8 volts. We were about 55F temperature. I didn't load or capacity test these batteries when new. At 55f we ran each battery with a 8.95 amp load for 3.33 hours (approx. 30 aHs). Each battery ended with approx. 12.0 volts. Ranged between .4 volts of each other. On a generic graph I have, it shows a lead acid battery with a c/10 load at 50% capacity at 12.0 volts. That's the only capacity testing we did. In service they need to run at 5 amps for 2 hours most of the time. Do you have any other recommendations on capacity test try? Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511615#511615 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bringing flat AGM back from the dead At 08:02 PM 10/17/2023, you wrote: > >Hi Bob >The Batteries are 110 amp AGM 12 volt. We load tested them for >10 seconds at 300 amps. All 4 were about the same, after 10 >seconds voltage was 9.6 to 9.8 volts. That seems a bit 'soggy' for 110 ah batteries. The 'cranking test' that was standard at B&C for years was to apply a load that produces a terminal voltage of 9V and hold it for 15 seconds. Read the 9v current at the 15 second mark. New, 18AH SVLA batteries would routinely produce 500+ amps over that interval. Just for grins, I've got a group 65 battery in the shop with a 1200W inverter bonded to the side. Handy for portable power in the field. It's got a August 2019 manufacturing date sticker. The sticker cranking value is 850A. I just did a 9V/15S load test on it and got a value of 620 Amps. It had not been topped off in some time so I left it in the care of a YONHAN charger. I'll do a WestMountain Radio CAP check on it in the morning. The battery weighs about 55 pounds so I would expect it to have a new capacity on the order of 50AH. After I suck out and measure all its juices, I'll recharge with the YONHAN and plot the curve. This is going to take a few days so I'll have to report back. (I'm in process of setting up a vacuum pump drive pad test stand with an 8-30A electrical system mockup. It will feature an electronic load bank capable of much larger loads than my WMR battery tester . . . so I'll be able to evaluate big batteries in less time. I dug out a data acquisition system I last used on a project at Beech. It's an 8-channel, 12- bit system capable of 1000 samples/second. The quality of my data plots should take a quantum jump!) Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.