Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Power, signal, and Coax - How should they be bundled? (Matthew Whiting)
2. 09:09 AM - Alternator Voltage Creeping Up (Sebastien)
3. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Power, signal, and Coax - How should they be bundled? (Ken Ryan)
4. 08:29 PM - Re: Alternator Voltage Creeping Up (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Power, signal, and Coax - How should they |
be bundled?
Well, not exactly. Your point seemed to be that there is never a
problem running power and signal lines together so just do it. My point
is that this is true most of the time, but not all of the time. Given
that, unless if requires jumping through some pretty big hoops, and it
seldom does, I always separate power and signal as there is seldom a
reason to not separate them and it removes one more possible source of
issues. So why not just do it as normal practice. Generally, it costs
nothing or next to nothing in either dollars or time so why not just run
power and signal separately as a matter of course? This is as close to
a free lunch as engineering ever gives you.
Matt
> On Nov 18, 2023, at 4:44=AFPM, Charlie England
<ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for generalizing on my specific point about running power &
signals down separate sides of the fuselage for a trim servo. ;-)
>
> On 11/18/2023 1:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>> The answer is: it depends. For most power (>12 V, low current <10A)
and most signal (>1 V, slow transition ms to =CE=BCs) lines, it won=99
t matter much. However, add in higher currents >>10A, lower voltage <1
mV, fast transition (ns) and things get dicier. Now, there aren=99t
many such signals in a light airplane, but some items to pay attention
to are magnetometers, GPS antennas, cables and connections, CANbus, and
higher speed switching devices like strobes and such. Even audio
related devices and cables can be bothered as these often operate at mV
signal levels.
>>
>> My philosophy is to do the things at the outset that are fairly easy
to do. I generally use twisted pair wires for power and return to each
device unless using the airframe as the return. You can easily twist
your own with a drill or buy premade twisted pair wire at a very small
cost premium. And the twisted wires tend to be easy to tie into a
bundle.
>>
>> I separate higher current and fast switching wires from signal wires
such as communication (CANbus, Ethernet, RS232, ARINC 429, etc.), coax
antenna, etc.
>>
>> These two simple practices, combined with proper single point
grounding, will eliminate 99% of possible issues with almost zero
additional effort and cost.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2023, at 12:47=AFPM, Charlie England
<ceengland7@gmail.com> <mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Looks good. I suspect that the same point that I was trying to make
would still apply; There's no worry about running power & signal in the
same bundle.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023 at 10:04=AFAM wsimpso1
<wsimpso1@comcast.net <mailto:wsimpso1@comcast.net>> wrote:
<wsimpso1@comcast.net <mailto:wsimpso1@comcast.net>>
>>>>
>>>> Charlie,
>>>>
>>>> Not Menzimer, using Actuonix P-16P for elevators, P-16L for rudder
and aileron. As light as MAC, fits in my stabilizers, less expensive,
rated for dust and condensation, right speed, and enough back drive
resistance to hold settings. I get the off-axis pushrod loads off the
servo with a little bellcrank, and put adjustable limit switches on the
bellcrank after I know where the limits should be. Using the P version
for elevators for position data - calcs say I may need to fly two trim
tab. Flight test will let me know if I can omit the motor and lock that
side, then fly the other or if I have to run them both.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback on cable. After searching I just bought
separate wires in same color scheme and will twist them into sets. Stein
had not popped in my search, but I just looked at their site and there
it is.
>>>>
>>>> Billski
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512404#51240
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512404#512404>
>
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Alternator Voltage Creeping Up |
Good Morning All,
Our club has a Zenith 750 Cruzer with a Continental O-200. The alternator
is standard Continental type on the back of the accessory case and the
regulator is Ford type, mounted on the cabin side of the firewall. Battery
is an EarthX 680.
For years the bus voltage was 14.4-14.6 after start and within a few
minutes would decrease to 14.3-14.4. Over the last two months it has
started to creep up. After start we've seen up to 15v and sometimes it will
take 15 minutes before it gets down to 14.6, 30 minutes to return to a
normal 14.3.
These numbers all recorded by a Dynon EMS, haven't confirmed them with a
voltmeter yet but no reason to doubt the data.
Is it possible that a normally functioning Ford type regulator can demand
voltages this high? Any ideas on what is going on here?
Thank you,
Sebastien
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Power, signal, and Coax - How should they |
be bundled?
Matt, what you say makes sense to me. Plus, if there is a problem, these
possible causes, no matter how remote, have already been eliminated.
On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 7:42=AFAM Matthew Whiting <m.whiting@frontier
.com>
wrote:
> Well, not exactly. Your point seemed to be that there is never a problem
> running power and signal lines together so just do it. My point is that
> this is true most of the time, but not all of the time. Given that, unle
ss
> if requires jumping through some pretty big hoops, and it seldom does, I
> always separate power and signal as there is seldom a reason to not
> separate them and it removes one more possible source of issues. So why
> not just do it as normal practice. Generally, it costs nothing or next t
o
> nothing in either dollars or time so why not just run power and signal
> separately as a matter of course? This is as close to a free lunch as
> engineering ever gives you.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2023, at 4:44=AFPM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.co
m> wrote:
>
> Thanks for generalizing on my specific point about running power & signal
s
> down separate sides of the fuselage for a trim servo. ;-)
>
> On 11/18/2023 1:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>
> The answer is: it depends. For most power (>12 V, low current <10A) and
> most signal (>1 V, slow transition ms to =CE=BCs) lines, it won=99t
matter
> much. However, add in higher currents >>10A, lower voltage <1 mV, fast
> transition (ns) and things get dicier. Now, there aren=99t many su
ch signals
> in a light airplane, but some items to pay attention to are magnetometers
,
> GPS antennas, cables and connections, CANbus, and higher speed switching
> devices like strobes and such. Even audio related devices and cables can
> be bothered as these often operate at mV signal levels.
>
> My philosophy is to do the things at the outset that are fairly easy to
> do. I generally use twisted pair wires for power and return to each devi
ce
> unless using the airframe as the return. You can easily twist your own
> with a drill or buy premade twisted pair wire at a very small cost
> premium. And the twisted wires tend to be easy to tie into a bundle.
>
> I separate higher current and fast switching wires from signal wires such
> as communication (CANbus, Ethernet, RS232, ARINC 429, etc.), coax antenna
,
> etc.
>
> These two simple practices, combined with proper single point grounding,
> will eliminate 99% of possible issues with almost zero additional effort
> and cost.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 18, 2023, at 12:47=AFPM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.c
om>
> <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Looks good. I suspect that the same point that I was trying to make would
> still apply; There's no worry about running power & signal in the same
> bundle.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023 at 10:04=AFAM wsimpso1 <wsimpso1@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
t
>> >
>>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> Not Menzimer, using Actuonix P-16P for elevators, P-16L for rudder and
>> aileron. As light as MAC, fits in my stabilizers, less expensive, rated
for
>> dust and condensation, right speed, and enough back drive resistance to
>> hold settings. I get the off-axis pushrod loads off the servo with a lit
tle
>> bellcrank, and put adjustable limit switches on the bellcrank after I kn
ow
>> where the limits should be. Using the P version for elevators for positi
on
>> data - calcs say I may need to fly two trim tab. Flight test will let me
>> know if I can omit the motor and lock that side, then fly the other or i
f I
>> have to run them both.
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback on cable. After searching I just bought separate
>> wires in same color scheme and will twist them into sets. Stein had not
>> popped in my search, but I just looked at their site and there it is.
>>
>> Billski
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512404#51240
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512404#512404>
>>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
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>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Voltage Creeping Up |
Check for bad connections that are corroded or loose.
The problem could also be internal to circuit breakers or switches.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512425#512425
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