Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 PM - Re: ARINC questions (Sebastien)
2. 01:48 PM - Re: 3 stage switching for lights (Werner Schneider)
3. 02:05 PM - Re: ARINC questions (Marcus Sabathil)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ARINC questions |
Marcus you still haven't told us what you're trying to connect but you keep
mentioning GRT. They are the one manufacturer of non-certified EFIS systems
that typically *does* include 429 boxes built into their units instead of
requiring a separate box. For example if I recall correctly the HXr had two
separate 429 ports available that could be set to just about any data
format used in amateur built avionics. Are you trying to connect a GPS and
transponder to a GRT EFIS?
There are many amateur-built aircraft out there with all sorts of extra
boxes and control units that could have been skipped by running a few wires
and configuring the systems to work together. I've also seen several very
expensive owner designed "Airliner" panels in Canada that didn't qualify
for removal of the VFR restriction when the time came due to a lack of
understanding of the redundancy requirements. It's hard to get a solid
education when the people with the knowledge don't know what it is that you
need to know. I suggest you post a block diagram here for review before you
spend money unnecessarily.
Regards,
Sebastien
On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 6:49=AFPM Marcus Sabathil <marcussab@gmail.com
> wrote:
> OK. That all answers my questions pretty well. I'm not going to be adding
> another steep learning curve to my list of steep learning curves with whi
ch
> I pay myself $3 an hour for a week to save myself $500.
>
> As much as they are necessary to play with the big boy toys, ARINC-429
> modules seem pretty expensive considering the component costs but since
> they are made in very low production numbers and require development,
> programming, troubleshooting, etc, I can see how they are priced relative
ly
> high. I wonder why they are not just built into each consumer avionics
> product from the factory. Isn't the whole point of a communication standa
rd
> to make all this simpler, safer and more efficient? It's a standard that
no
> one seems to use (in the consumer market) except when they want to sell y
ou
> more black boxes. I should try to accustom myself to the world someday.
>
> On the other, other hand, these small companies with fantastic customer
> service, like GRT, are really great to have around. Maybe I should compla
in
> a little less about that *one* product they sell that seems too
> expensive.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 12:13=AFPM <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> While the ARINC standard is a standard and the communication between the
>> source device (Garmin, Avidyne, S-Tec, etc.) and their ARINC module woul
d
>> be identical, the communication between the ARINC module and the
>> destination device (AFS/Dynon, GRT, etc.) could all be different
=93
>> especially since they all make their own ARINC modules. Additionally, t
he
>> type of data carried will use differing portions of the protocol
Traffic,
>> FIS-B, roll control, etc. input where something else was expected could
>> cause problems even when the data record type is identified.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are a number of differing altitude outputs =93 just look at
any
>> serial capable altitude encoder as a starting example.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would say each manufacturer that produces their own ARINC module
>> generally provides proprietary output to their line of products.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I have at least three different ARINC converter boxes in my plan
e
>> =93 one for GRT, one for AFS and one for S-Tec =93 they all
carry data to the
>> S-Tec. Switching the devices is critical for proper operation.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <
>> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus
>> Sabathil
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 2, 2023 14:39
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: ARINC questions
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to get a handle on wiring my EFIS and incorporating GPS and
>> the use of ARINC-429 modules in my experimental aircraft.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are ARINC modules interchangeable, as long as you know the pinouts, or
>> are they specific to each manufacturer? I know that If you are running a
>> serial rs232 output to the ARINC module, it converts that signal to the
>> ARINC protocol and that will then work with ARINC compatible avionics. I
s
>> rs232 data also standardized? For instance, Is GRT rs232 altitude data t
he
>> same format as Dynon rs232 data and therefore, any ARINC module could be
>> used? Or does each maker produce and program custom ARINC Modules to
>> convert their data?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Marcus Sabathil
>>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3 stage switching for lights |
Thanks M,
the circuit shown for the dimmer is not exactly the product used, the
Perhelion dimer has an integrated on-off switch. And the LED's are
strips with resistors for 12 V.
The problem I see is, in the position where the rear led strip is on
full voltage via pin 2, the front is as well on the dimmer, that is not
what I want. so that position is not independent. I would like to have 3
independent switch position.
Cheers Werner
On 02.12.2023 19:50, M Wilson wrote:
> That looks like it should work.
> I'd pull the feed for switch input pin2 from before the dimmer and use
> one fuse.
> I assume there are series resistors as part of the cabin LEDs to limit
> current?=C2- If, not they are needed.
>
> The LM317 dimmer circuit will not go to a completely off state.
>
>
> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 11:37:32 AM CST, Werner Schneider
> <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bob,
>
> The dimmer has the off functionality, so 3 position would work but
> need to have 2 feeders, diodes would be against crossfeed here my
> architecture, but the switch will not work this way
>
>
> On 02.12.2023 17:32, Bob Kuc wrote:
> I would think that you need a 4 position switch since off position
> would be needed.=C2- I would just go with 2 switches, but if you want
> only one then look at a 4 position rotary switch.
>
> 1 off
> 2 front
> 3 back
> 4 both
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023, 10:37=AFAM Christopher Cee Stone
> <rv8iator@gmail.com <mailto:rv8iator@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> image.png
> Take at the functions. It appears to me this is what you want.
>
> Also
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/293559818578?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1
&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=293559818578&t
argetid=1490630670660&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032917&poi=
&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=pla-149063
0670660&abcId=9307249&merchantid=114784040&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyKurBhD5ARI
sALamXaHdlww9Fe9Yu1ydQyAe6anUXRiGz4KA3n6oG3-clEaFpkyQR-CLpzUaAsIYEALw_wcB
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/293559818578?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=
1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=293559818578&
targetid=1490630670660&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032917&poi
=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=pla-149
0630670660&abcId=9307249&merchantid=114784040&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyKurBhD5
ARIsALamXaHdlww9Fe9Yu1ydQyAe6anUXRiGz4KA3n6oG3-clEaFpkyQR-CLpzUaAsIYEALw_w
cB>
>
> ...chris
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 7:26=AFAM Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx
.net
> <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>> wrote:
>
> Thanks Christopher,
>
> but they do not work as they have not 3 independent position
>
>
> it's always a set of 2 closed so eg. if you feed from 5 and 2
> you could do 5-4 up, 5-6 middle but then down you would have
> 2-3 but 5-6 would be closed as well :(
>
> On 02.12.2023 16:00, Christopher Cee Stone wrote:
>> Many from on-line vendors:
>> https://www.amazon.com/GAMA-Electronics-Toggle-Switch-Position/
dp/B001PNMC16
>> <https://www.amazon.com/GAMA-Electronics-Toggle-Switch-Position
/dp/B001PNMC16>
>>
>> https://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-3-position-dpdt/
>> <https://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-3-position-dpdt
/>
>>
>> https://bandc.com/product/toggle-switch-double-pole/?attribute_
configuration=-10+ON-ON-ON
>> <https://bandc.com/product/toggle-switch-double-pole/?attribute
_configuration=-10+ON-ON-ON>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 3:12=AFPM werner schneider
>> <glastar@gmx.net <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>> wrote:
>>
>> schneider" <glastar@gmx.net <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>>
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I wonder if I could save on a 4th dimmer ;) Here what I
>> want to achieve:
>>
>> Cabin lights (LED) 2 section, front and rear:
>>
>> -position 1, front lights on dimmer, rear lights off
>> -position 2, front and rear lights on dimmer
>> -position 3, front lights off, rear lights on 13.8V
>>
>> I did craft a scheme, but I'm not able to find a switch
>> which offer that 3 stage functionality or maybe I'm just
>> not good enough in wiring it for that functionality.
>>
>> Thanks for your help (due to space constrains the switch
>> would need to use screw terminals in addition)
>>
>> Werner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512721#512721
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512721#51272
1>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroEl
ectric-List
>> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin
.
>> ="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>> <https://matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: ARINC questions |
Thanks Sebastien,
I'm not going to buy anything until I decide on a GPS unit in any event.
When I start designing my system, I=99ll run it past you folks here
for
sure. In addition to connecting my GRT Sport EX (GRT now supplies a
separate ARINC box for the Sport EX) to an IFR capable GPS (not purchased
yet) I have the autopilot servos to install.
I=99m installing dual lightspeed plasma III ignition on an O-540. I
=99ll need
to design a system with a backup battery, possibly a separate bus and an
alternator (SD8) which I have. The original regulator for that was $95
through B&C but they have discontinued it for the ~$350 AVC1 Voltage
controller. I was wondering what alternatives exist for the budget
experimental builder or if that's a good value. The other alternator will
be a belt driven 40 amp Denso converted to external regulation with a very
interesting Lamar VR2000-14-3 regulator with built in OV protection
(article here: http://kellyaerospace.com/articles/VoltageReg.pdf). I like
the idea of two separate busses, each with it's own alternator but I'm very
open to suggestions.
I'm still debating my transponder choice (I'm Canadian who will fly into
the US so I'll eventually need a diversity antenna ADS-B out situation)
The main focus for now should probably be the ignition and charging system.
I'll do a preliminary block diagram of what I have so far.
Cheers,
Marcus
On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 12:19=AFPM Sebastien <cluros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marcus you still haven't told us what you're trying to connect but you
> keep mentioning GRT. They are the one manufacturer of non-certified EFIS
> systems that typically *does* include 429 boxes built into their units
> instead of requiring a separate box. For example if I recall correctly th
e
> HXr had two separate 429 ports available that could be set to just about
> any data format used in amateur built avionics. Are you trying to connect
a
> GPS and transponder to a GRT EFIS?
>
> There are many amateur-built aircraft out there with all sorts of extra
> boxes and control units that could have been skipped by running a few wir
es
> and configuring the systems to work together. I've also seen several very
> expensive owner designed "Airliner" panels in Canada that didn't qualify
> for removal of the VFR restriction when the time came due to a lack of
> understanding of the redundancy requirements. It's hard to get a solid
> education when the people with the knowledge don't know what it is that y
ou
> need to know. I suggest you post a block diagram here for review before y
ou
> spend money unnecessarily.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sebastien
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 6:49=AFPM Marcus Sabathil <marcussab@gmail.c
om>
> wrote:
>
>> OK. That all answers my questions pretty well. I'm not going to be addin
g
>> another steep learning curve to my list of steep learning curves with wh
ich
>> I pay myself $3 an hour for a week to save myself $500.
>>
>> As much as they are necessary to play with the big boy toys, ARINC-429
>> modules seem pretty expensive considering the component costs but since
>> they are made in very low production numbers and require development,
>> programming, troubleshooting, etc, I can see how they are priced relativ
ely
>> high. I wonder why they are not just built into each consumer avionics
>> product from the factory. Isn't the whole point of a communication stand
ard
>> to make all this simpler, safer and more efficient? It's a standard that
no
>> one seems to use (in the consumer market) except when they want to sell
you
>> more black boxes. I should try to accustom myself to the world someday.
>>
>> On the other, other hand, these small companies with fantastic customer
>> service, like GRT, are really great to have around. Maybe I should compl
ain
>> a little less about that *one* product they sell that seems too
>> expensive.
>>
>> Thanks everyone.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 12:13=AFPM <recapen@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> While the ARINC standard is a standard and the communication between th
e
>>> source device (Garmin, Avidyne, S-Tec, etc.) and their ARINC module wou
ld
>>> be identical, the communication between the ARINC module and the
>>> destination device (AFS/Dynon, GRT, etc.) could all be different
=93
>>> especially since they all make their own ARINC modules. Additionally,
the
>>> type of data carried will use differing portions of the protocol
Traffic,
>>> FIS-B, roll control, etc. input where something else was expected could
>>> cause problems even when the data record type is identified.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are a number of differing altitude outputs =93 just look at
any
>>> serial capable altitude encoder as a starting example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would say each manufacturer that produces their own ARINC module
>>> generally provides proprietary output to their line of products.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I have at least three different ARINC converter boxes in my
>>> plane =93 one for GRT, one for AFS and one for S-Tec =93 th
ey all carry data to
>>> the S-Tec. Switching the devices is critical for proper operation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <
>>> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus
>>> Sabathil
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 2, 2023 14:39
>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: ARINC questions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to get a handle on wiring my EFIS and incorporating GPS and
>>> the use of ARINC-429 modules in my experimental aircraft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are ARINC modules interchangeable, as long as you know the pinouts, or
>>> are they specific to each manufacturer? I know that If you are running
a
>>> serial rs232 output to the ARINC module, it converts that signal to the
>>> ARINC protocol and that will then work with ARINC compatible avionics.
Is
>>> rs232 data also standardized? For instance, Is GRT rs232 altitude data
the
>>> same format as Dynon rs232 data and therefore, any ARINC module could b
e
>>> used? Or does each maker produce and program custom ARINC Modules to
>>> convert their data?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Marcus Sabathil
>>>
>>
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