---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/18/23: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Bob Verwey) 3. 07:28 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Christopher Cee Stone) 4. 08:38 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Charlie England) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:21 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 03:07 PM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Eric Page) 8. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) All the proto boards and parts are in. This is a busy time for festivities and frivolities . . . having trouble getting back to the bench. I'm going to try something 'new' for my shop. The big guns in electronic assembly literally silk screen solder paste onto component pads before using a pick-n-place machine to position parts. The boards are then run through a very sophisticated oven that preheats and then flows the solder. I remember my first experiences with solid state assembly protocols. 1955 or thereabouts I acquired my first transistor. A Raytheon CK722. Seems like they cost about $6 then. All the instructions for assembling the device into the circuit called for grabbing the lead with a pair of needle nose pliers to keep the soldering heat from migrating up and into the device placing it at risk for failure. Nowadays, we can throw whole assemblies into environments that solder thousands of joints all at once in mere minutes . . . I've purchased a hand operated syringe designed to deposit mosquito poop sized drops of solder paste onto the pads. I also have a miniature heat-gun with which I can stick every thing down in one operation. I've scheduled some time with my contractor to modify a workbench in the 'mess making' shop. We're adding some shelving to support test equipment over the alternator drive I built up several years ago for another project. I'm planning to instrument a mock-up of a complete electrical system so that we can speak to performance of system components in terms of measured values. Watch this space. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:30 AM PST US From: Bob Verwey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) Bob my optical focus is more and more a challenge when dealing with more and more minutuarized components! On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, 16:09 Robert L. Nuckolls, III, < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > All the proto boards and parts are in. > > This is a busy time for festivities and frivolities . . . > having trouble getting back to the bench. > > I'm going to try something 'new' for my shop. > The big guns in electronic assembly literally > silk screen solder paste onto component pads > before using a pick-n-place machine to position > parts. The boards are then run through a very > sophisticated oven that preheats and then > flows the solder. > > I remember my first experiences with solid state > assembly protocols. 1955 or thereabouts I acquired > my first transistor. A Raytheon CK722. Seems like > they cost about $6 then. All the instructions > for assembling the device into the circuit called > for grabbing the lead with a pair of needle nose > pliers to keep the soldering heat from migrating > up and into the device placing it at risk for > failure. > > Nowadays, we can throw whole assemblies into > environments that solder thousands > of joints all at once in mere minutes . . . > > I've purchased a hand operated syringe designed > to deposit mosquito poop sized drops of solder > paste onto the pads. I also have a miniature > heat-gun with which I can stick every thing down > in one operation. > > I've scheduled some time with my contractor to > modify a workbench in the 'mess making' shop. > We're adding some shelving to support test equipment > over the alternator drive I built up several > years ago for another project. I'm planning to > instrument a mock-up of a complete electrical > system so that we can speak to performance > of system components in terms of measured values. > > Watch this space. > > Bob . . . > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ================================ > > In the interest of creative evolution > of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based > on physics and good practice. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:24 AM PST US From: Christopher Cee Stone Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) Bob et al... This is a BGA component (Dims in mm) that is soldered to a slightly larger motherboard. All our fabs are pick and place. Most boards 6 layers with .010 in traces. We get some components that are manufactured in millimeters and our design software (Altium) likes inch grids... The conversion is four significant digits so it's only a matter of making sure you remember what units you are working in... I only bring this up as boards and fab have really become quite inexpensive. I do 5 piece and 10 piece board proto lots. Fun stuff! .Chris Another RV [image: image.png] On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 6:09=AFAM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > All the proto boards and parts are in. > > This is a busy time for festivities and frivolities . . . > having trouble getting back to the bench. > > I'm going to try something 'new' for my shop. > The big guns in electronic assembly literally > silk screen solder paste onto component pads > before using a pick-n-place machine to position > parts. The boards are then run through a very > sophisticated oven that preheats and then > flows the solder. > > I remember my first experiences with solid state > assembly protocols. 1955 or thereabouts I acquired > my first transistor. A Raytheon CK722. Seems like > they cost about $6 then. All the instructions > for assembling the device into the circuit called > for grabbing the lead with a pair of needle nose > pliers to keep the soldering heat from migrating > up and into the device placing it at risk for > failure. > > Nowadays, we can throw whole assemblies into > environments that solder thousands > of joints all at once in mere minutes . . . > > I've purchased a hand operated syringe designed > to deposit mosquito poop sized drops of solder > paste onto the pads. I also have a miniature > heat-gun with which I can stick every thing down > in one operation. > > I've scheduled some time with my contractor to > modify a workbench in the 'mess making' shop. > We're adding some shelving to support test equipment > over the alternator drive I built up several > years ago for another project. I'm planning to > instrument a mock-up of a complete electrical > system so that we can speak to performance > of system components in terms of measured values. > > Watch this space. > > Bob . . . > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o====== == > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ======================= ========= > > In the interest of creative evolution > of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based > on physics and good practice. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:02 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 8:09=AFAM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > All the proto boards and parts are in. > > This is a busy time for festivities and frivolities . . . > having trouble getting back to the bench. > > I'm going to try something 'new' for my shop. > The big guns in electronic assembly literally > silk screen solder paste onto component pads > before using a pick-n-place machine to position > parts. The boards are then run through a very > sophisticated oven that preheats and then > flows the solder. > snip > > Nowadays, we can throw whole assemblies into > environments that solder thousands > of joints all at once in mere minutes . . . > > I've purchased a hand operated syringe designed > to deposit mosquito poop sized drops of solder > paste onto the pads. I also have a miniature > heat-gun with which I can stick every thing down > in one operation. > > snip > > of system components in terms of measured values. > > Watch this space. > > Bob . . . > > > A friend of mine designed and has been making the control head/monitors for E-Mag ignition systems for many years, using surface mount components. He copied what hobbyists were doing; they used a particular brand of 'toaster oven' that has accurate temperature control. So if you have an E-Mag control head, it came from an 'easy bake oven'. ;-) Charlie Virus-free.www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) At 09:21 AM 12/18/2023, you wrote: >Bob my optical focus is more and more a challenge when dealing with >more and more minutuarized components! Yeah . . . While at Beech, I purchased a binocular microscope with a camera port. Invaluable tool for chasing down root cause for sticking relays, broken shafts, poor craftsmanship, etc. Now it's handy for working etched circuit boards! I don't use anything smaller than 1206 components but the next gen OVM got laid out really tight so the board will STILL fit under 1/2" heat shrink. I'm thinking of seeing if some of my contractor's grand kids would be interested in learning to assemble things like this. Thought it would be wise to pursue an upgrade to our shade-tree processes. The poop-n-blast technique seems like a logical 'upgrade'. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) >A friend of mine=C2 designed and has been making the control >head/monitors for E-Mag ignition systems for many years, using >surface mount components. He copied what hobbyists were doing; >they used a particular brand of 'toaster oven' that has >accurate temperature control. So if you have an E-Mag >control head, it came from an 'easy bake oven'. ;-) Yeah, I've been aware of a constellation of reflow tools for DIY assembly for a number of years. About 10 years ago, I bought an early version of this thing. Made it work okay . . . but it took up a lot of room on the bench and was a tool I used for perhaps an 2 hours per month. It was just not very practical for my products with tiny boards. Still had some thru-hole products that were not oven-friendly. My little hot-air rework station seemed to be a better fit for my mix of repair/ manufacturing tasks. Didn't take up much room. Virtually zero 'set up' . . . one could visually adjust technique on the fly. Was a whole lot cheaper too! I'm reminded of the exciting day that we purchased a wave soldering machine at Electro-Mech. We kept it for less than a year. There was a lot of 'back-office' work to store up enough boards to justify firing the thing up for a run . . . that might take less than an hour to solder a months worth of production. The thing proved to be a bottle-neck in work flow for an operation that produced a relatively small quantities of dozens of products that were needed at the customer in a smooth JIT flow. Our assembly line of skilled craftspersons proved more practical for managing work-flow. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= = < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ======================== ======== In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:56 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) From: "Eric Page" Those Chinese T-962 reflow ovens are well known in the hobbyist community for having hot and cold spots, sometimes poor internal wiring, and for not following IPC profiles (https://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-7801.pdf) very well. There's an open-source project out there for a replacement controller that makes them work better. I use an old toaster oven with a failed thermostat that makes it run full blast regardless of setting (I ate out the day that happened!). I picked up a cheap industrial ramp/soak PID controller to run it. The only modification necessary was to cover the inside of the window in its door with aluminum foil to minimize radiated heat loss. It now works like a charm and cost only a few dollars. If you want to build a toaster oven reflow setup, look for an oven with quartz heating elements; they're reputed to allow faster temperature ramps, making it easier to follow the right profile. -Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512805#512805 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:02 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) At 05:07 PM 12/18/2023, you wrote: > >Those Chinese T-962 reflow ovens are well known in the hobbyist >community for having hot and cold spots, sometimes poor internal >wiring, and for not following IPC profiles >(https://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-7801.pdf) very well. There's an >open-source project out there for a replacement controller that >makes them work better. > >I use an old toaster oven with a failed thermostat that makes it run >full blast regardless of setting (I ate out the day that >happened!). I picked up a cheap industrial ramp/soak PID controller >to run it. The only modification necessary was to cover the inside >of the window in its door with aluminum foil to minimize radiated >heat loss. It now works like a charm and cost only a few dollars. > >If you want to build a toaster oven reflow setup, look for an oven >with quartz heating elements; they're reputed to allow faster >temperature ramps, making it easier to follow the right profile. > Good info sir. Thank you! I think the T-962 has evolved to mitigate some of its shortcomings. The one I bought needed a number of mods right out of the box . . but it ultimately seemed adequate . . . jut more than I needed. Kinda like doing in ants with a sledgehammer! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and good practice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.